TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT I'm DOING

Hi everyone. On this episode of Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing, we share a conversation with actor, writer and presenter Sanjeev Bhaskar. Stay tuned.

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Speaker 2 (00:50.67)
Well, as always, I'm grateful you're taking time to listen, reflect and share in these conversations with me on Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Whether you're tuning in from your favorite podcast app, watching on YouTube or sharing this with friends and family, I truly appreciate your company and curiosity. We'd love to hear from you. So please don't forget to subscribe, write reviews or send us your feedback or greetings to info at abaidandekar.com. Now for me, the UK has brought me three very exciting things in my life. The Beatles, Wimbledon,

and Sanjeev Bhaskar. As highly critical as it is to bring the Kohinoor back to India, so is the importance of celebrating Britain's next most valuable Indian gem. If there ever was a celebrity hero in my house who speaks to the global Indian experience with humor, gravitas, and an earnest simplicity of sharing the mirrors and windows of our community, it's my next guest, the remarkably talented and genuinely personable Sanjeev Bhaskar. Actor, writer, presenter, comedian, author, and as he puts it,

a work in progress. Sanjeev was born and raised in the UK and is a generationally celebrated artist. After starting in musical comedy, he first rose to prominence as a creator and star of the groundbreaking sketch show, Goodness Gracious Me, which brought Desi humor into the mainstream and broke new ground for representation on British television. He's also widely known for his role as the endearing host of The Kumar's at number 42, an award winning talk show, blending comedy and Indian family dynamics.

Sanjeev's versatility extends to the dramatic roles, notably in The Indian Doctor and the acclaimed crime drama Unforgotten, where he plays Sunny Khan, a role he'll reprise in the upcoming series that's due in August. Beyond his on-screen work, he serves as Chancellor of the University of Sussex and as a UNICEF UK Ambassador, further highlighting his commitment to education and global public service for children. His career is marked by a unique blend of humour, empathy and cultural impact.

making him a beloved figure both in the UK and internationally. We caught up to chat about the wandering journey of building confidence, navigating labels, and the delicate dance between humility and success. What was obvious from the start is that it's impossible not to be drawn to Sanjeev's curiosity, inclusive empathy, infectious ability to engage in the moment, and pure warmth. But so as we were getting introduced to each other, I wanted to know how Sanjeev introduces himself at gatherings or parties.

Speaker 2 (03:17.438)
whether he's someone who finds a spot to settle into, or rather enjoys a good wander through the crowd, finding serendipitous surprises along the way.

That's a really interesting question. I think it's a combination of the two. I find a spot and then wait for serendipitous surprises to go past me. think it's, I don't really like being the center of attention. So that wandering around, know, I mean, I can happily talk to anybody, but I think it's a throwback to when I was younger and had no confidence. didn't have confidence. I don't think I experienced confidence until I was 40.

So I think it's a holdover from that of just being slightly awkward and lacking confidence in being able to go up to people and approach people and start talking to them. So I very much do find a spot and then see what passes. So it is a combination of the two, think, weirdly.

You know, I can't imagine that this happens too often, but how do you introduce yourself to particularly new people who may not know you at all?

I'm not that interested in whether they know me at all, actually. I'm interested in the conversation and so I'm interested in them. And so trying to find common ground until they ask me what I do, in which case I'll tell them I'm not sort of embarrassed about what I do at all. But I think initially, other than my name, I'm trying to find common ground. And I think that I feel that if I start with saying, you know, I'm Sanjeev and I'm an actor and...

Speaker 1 (04:48.288)
it'll beg questions from them if they don't know who I am, you what have you been in, what platform or whatever. I feel that I'm not looking for, I can't find common ground at that point. It may be that they are, but I think chances are, I try to find something that, if you find something that you both love, if you can hit upon that, I think that's a great starting point. And also, because I do feel that it's important to find something you agree on.

I think disagreeing after agreeing feels very different to trying to agree after you've disagreed. So that thing of trying to find that common ground, hopefully around something you both love, is I think what I'm looking for.

You just mentioned, we were talking about this earlier and you were saying how much of a student you are of just the idea of empathy. And that certainly speaks to that. I mean, think raging empathic is something we at least tried to coin together. But the truth is, that when someone does realize who you are and they put two and two together and there's maybe a small tickle for them, are you tickled by that at all? I mean, even being able to understand that they have now.

either recognized you or they've figured out that like, hey, you're someone who I've noted before and I'm potentially interested in more by that fact. mean, yes, there's a confidence part and perhaps there's a glide path towards being less awkward as we age, but do you get tickled by that even for those who you visibly are looking and seeing that surprise?

Yeah, I do because I tried to, I found it very difficult actually at the beginning because I don't know if I felt undeserving of it maybe a little. I mean, I think that you never know who you're gonna touch. And so the fact that anybody has enjoyed or enjoys anything I do, I think is a great honor. And I think for a lot of people, it's difficult for them to say as well. Sure. Because they're kind of worried about how they're gonna come across and people are...

Speaker 1 (06:49.598)
I'm hugely concerned about being liked and else. Yeah. I'm being judged. Yeah. You being judged negatively. And so I try to kind of do try to accept it in the spirit in which it's given. people are generally very nice. And so, you know, it's beholden to me to be nice back. Actually, even if they weren't nice to me, I mean, it's kind of I don't think I would be horrible back because I think it's a waste of my energy. Yeah.

making a fool of them.

Speaker 1 (07:17.548)
Yeah, quite frankly. so, yeah, it is is nice. It is nice that, you know, people have valued something that you've done because you never knew that that particular individual was going to value it. And so an audience becomes, you know, an unseen mass. Sure. Which is difficult to relate to, but you can relate to a person. So.

And it's also nice when, you know, like you said, they're an unseen mass and yet the reality of you having that kindness that that sort of open heart is refreshing, I'm sure, because now there's there's a common ground, as you said, and there's something for you to agree on. And then hopefully to cultivate more conversation and sort of disagree on something. I'm curious about that transition of going from.

someone who perhaps doesn't have confidence, someone who's slightly more on the awkward side, introverted. And I'm a big believer that people sort of fit in this ambivert function of being introverted and extroverted at some times. But those very early days when you were perhaps working with Nitin, Nitin Sani, and kind of first getting started in musical comedy, almost demands a little bit of breaking through some of that. And do you remember what your life was like?

or even your mindset was like, particularly when it came to confidence and taking risks and making that, you know, sort of bridge away from that insular person to someone who is now sharing quite broadly a little bit more of their persona and their art.

I do remember, I mean, my first memory is a two and a half years old. And I have pretty vivid memories from about four years old onwards, including sense memories of how I felt at the time and what I was thinking. I lacked confidence, but I had extrovert skills. So the ability to kind of stand on a stage and talk to people was a skill. And to me, I defined confidence as when you're not

Speaker 1 (09:13.302)
worried about what people think of you. And so I think that initially going up on stage, that set of skills to be able to perform and take risks, I think was a skill set. as I said, 40 was when I first felt confident in who I was. I realized that I'd given absolutely everybody the power to make or break my day.

And there was a realization, anybody coming past and saying, I think you're crap or I think you're of like, you're talentless or whatever, it could destroy my day. And I suddenly then realized that actually I realized how much power I was giving to everybody. Externally. Externally, yeah. And that I could choose who I gave that power to.

And so then that was something that arose out of a subconscious, I guess, but that became a conscious thing where I thought, actually, who do I, whose opinion of me do I trust and do I care? And I kind of wanted them to be sort of honest with me. know, people use the phrase brutally honest, but I think you can be kindly honest. And so it was looking for those people who would...

be kind to me but would also not let me get away with anything.

I'm sorry, I was gonna say, did that take practice? mean, because again, leading up to a certain point, you get so many iterations of you presenting yourself and then hopefully people being kindly honest and you understanding that there's honesty there that can move maybe from being brutally honest to kindly honest. But did you have to practice that synthesis a little bit and get into it to a point where you were a lot more comfortable with accepting that and then again, developing the sort of

Speaker 2 (11:07.682)
confidence you're talking

Absolutely. think it's, I think the same with empathy. I think the same with kindness. I think as a conscious thought, sometimes it is difficult to be kind towards someone. It's difficult to empathize with somebody. But if you practice it enough times, it becomes habit. It just becomes who you are. And so I think at the beginning, you have to be conscious of it. It's like people kind of...

doing, saying kind things, doing kind things. You know, sometimes people have to remember because you have to get over your own preconceptions of a situation or you have to get over your own fear of a situation or anxiety in order to access that. But after a while, just becomes, it's like positivity. You know, I think I'm fairly positive. And again, my definition of positivity, which is one I heard actually, was that positivity is not thinking,

that everything's going to turn out great, it's knowing that this kind of crap situation that you're in will not last. so there's a subtle difference between the two. so whenever I hit a negative thought, now I have a bunch of positive thoughts that flood in to balance that. So one of the things I was saying recently, we were talking at home and I said, you know, it's,

vitally important for me that my first step is a positive one. Because if that is positive, then my next step is more likely to be positive. If my first step, the step I mean, you know, thought or an attitude is negative, it's much more difficult than to turn that around to get to a second positive step. And so, you know, I absolutely now have conditioned myself.

Speaker 1 (12:59.16)
to starting a thought with what I have as opposed to what I don't have.

In those particularly early days then, did you have a set plan B just in the perspective of staying positive but not necessarily translating to success?

Well, that comes down to how you define success. You know, one of the things that I kind of realized that society defines success by numbers, and that may be whether it's a chart of some kind or there's a hierarchy of some kind. For a lot of people, the simplest one is money. And so, you know, if you're earning a million, you're doing better than the guy who's earning 10,000.

but worse than the guy with two million.

worse than the guy with two million, right? so, but it places you in a hierarchy which will either make you feel good or it'll make you feel bad. For me, I think that there was a point at which I realized that success for me was based on experiences. And the fact that I was doing something I love, which is a privilege that 99 % of the planet don't have, my parents certainly didn't have it.

Speaker 1 (14:19.104)
meant that I'd kind of already won. without competing with anybody, I'd won. I was doing something I really, really love. And the fact that I'm still doing it means I've won again. So I'm not really competing with anybody in terms of what that success means for me. So I'm kind of constantly redefining what success means, but it's got less and less to do with money. Money is the worst thing. mean, one day you've got it, another day you haven't.

What a crazy thing to attach who you are to.

And as you have matured or even again, when you were first starting out and thinking about this, given, you know, your memories that you talked about your parents, are you someone who's a planner? Do you are you someone who has to kind of have the the steps mapped out or are you more of a wanderer in that way? I read you had chatted about in the past about your mom being

incredibly, you know, compassionate with Art of Gold and your dad sort of had this sense of duty to the family. And so for those who follow artistic careers, you know, we talk, they talk about lucky breaks or serendipity actually happening in their career. And yet there's an enormous amount of planning and there's enormous amount of preparation that goes into this. Does the planning come easy to you? Do you crave that or are you more of a wanderer?

Well, here's the interesting thing about planning. I'm the chancellor of the University of Sussex. Right. Yup. T-shirt right here. So I effectively give commencement speeches every year at graduations. And one of the things I said at graduation last year was at every ceremony, 13 ceremonies, I think, was that planning is great. Planning is really useful, but planning is linear. All right. It has to be like steps on a ladder. Right. Step one, step two, step three, step four, you get to the top.

Speaker 1 (16:16.886)
Life is the opposite. Life is a disruptor. And so, you you could be climbing your ladder, your plan, life comes in, suddenly you're not on the ladder anymore. Then you're on the same ladder, but upside down. Then you're on a different ladder. And so a lot of people get paralyzed at that point thinking, my God, but my plan, my plan's in tatters. But that is what life is supposed to do. So it pays to be

comfortable I feel with both of those things comfortable to plan and comfortable to know that life the disruptor will probably Disrupt that plan. There's very few people in life. I think who kind of you know, follow exactly the plan they had And so the only responsibility at that point when the disruptor comes in is to adjust and make your plan again from there Yeah, and so it's it's a that's a constant movement. So I know that doesn't exactly answer the question you were asking but

So I am more of a wanderer because I think that opportunities, I don't think, give a damn about your plan. The opportunities will pass by and a lot of people who are fixated on a plan may not see them and may not be ready for them. So the two things one has to be is ready and secondly, to recognize an opportunity when it arrives. It may take you in, you know, one of a million different directions and then you just plan from there.

I love that ladder analogy because I think maybe someone like you has a deep appreciation and vision for the ladders that are whizzing around you and when life disrupts you, when to step off and find your next ladder.

Also, think I mean I've experienced it but I I don't think anyone genuinely knows what lies in their future. Sure. And so what happens or I think what happens to many people is that they fill that unknown with catastrophe. Yeah. And so the phrase – I haven't found the equivalent phrase in another language but certainly in English. The phrase

Speaker 1 (18:25.73)
better the devil you know, just means I'll accept this thing which I think is terrible now because there may be an even worse thing waiting for me in the future. Right? So the thing is that you take that decision. Now, my argument is when you get to that future and the terrible imagined thing that you had in your head has not turned up, you're now stuck with the thing that you knew wasn't good for you. And neither are you in a position to be able to take advantage of any of the good stuff that's come along.

So why not look at that empty future as possibilities? And if you accept the one possibility is that you could be worse off than you are now, then you have to accept that there's a possibility in which you're better off. And there's a million possibilities where it's just different. So now make your decision.

Right. Well, has that served you with a pathway for endurance and longevity as a working actor and a creative?

That's a good question. I think that so much of what I do is based on on serendipity. think so much of it is about luck that I feel instinctively that perhaps it's made me more resilient in that if one path has not opened up, I'm just aware that there are thousands of others that there's a way both Beatles fans, right? Yeah, yeah. There's a there's a quote that's been in my head that I heard or a story that's been in my head that I heard maybe a year or two ago.

And the Beatles are very early on in the UK. They're in a van of some kind going up and down the highways, doing their small gigs with all the band and their little pubs. Yeah. Little places like that. And they're in a van heading back to Liverpool from London in the winter. And the roads are very icy. And their van skids off the road and lands in a ditch at a 45 degree angle. And there's silence.

Speaker 1 (20:25.824)
inside the van until one of the Beatles says, well, something's going to happen. Right. And that's it. That is it. You know, whether you do something, you don't do something, you make a decision, you regret a decision, you're happy with your decision, something's going to happen. Yeah. And so all you can do, I think, at that point is respond to whatever happens. Sure.

I love that. I mean, the idea that there is an embrace of the unknown and yet in a way that something is going to happen, mentality is a mode of preparation and true sort of mental and even sort of spiritual planning. You're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. After a quick break, let's come back to our conversation with Sanjeev Bhaskar. Stay tuned.

Speaker 2 (21:22.136)
Conversation. It's the antidote to apathy and the catalyst for relationships. I'm Abhay Dhandekar and I share conversations with global Indians and South Asians so everyone can say, trust me, I know what I'm doing. New episodes weekly wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Speaker 1 (21:44.558)
Hi, I'm Vivek Murthy. I'm the 21st Surgeon General of the United States, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing.

Speaker 2 (22:01.186)
Hi everyone, this is Shreya Prakash Khanna. Hello everyone, my name is Tim France. Hi, I'm Lilly Singh. Hi, my name is Sindhuvi. I'm a stand-up comedian and an actor. And right now, you are listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing.

Welcome back to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Let's rejoin our conversation now with actor, writer and presenter Sanjeev Bhaskar. I want to ask you particularly about Goodness Gracious Me and the Kumars. They were so groundbreaking for many, many people of color, certainly many global Indians and South Asians, but it was more than that, For me personally, at least, I can only share my own vantage point, but it was funny. It was creative. It was heartwarming. was...

visibility, was very timely. And among the sort of first television, I think, presentations that featured protagonists that were looking like me and looking like you and sharing a little bit of all of us. Now, you know, I know that it's the case for millions of viewers and fans, but do you actually ever get nostalgic for those presentations?

not just the times, for the actual presentations themselves, because as a writer, as a performer, you know, in general, do you get nostalgic for your work?

Yeah, think I do. I think I'm quite a nostalgic person. know, I've had girlfriends in the past that accused me of living in the past. But, you know, but if I am living in the past in those moments, it's a good past. Yeah. You know, it's kind of like it's great to dwell in good memories. Who the hell wants to go back to bad ones? mean, so yeah, I am nostalgic about it. I think for me also because

Speaker 1 (23:50.956)
because Goodness Gracious Me was the first thing I did as an actor or as a writer, it felt like, and I think it felt for all of us who were involved in it, I think it was the first production I can think of where the writers, the performers, the producer were all of kind of Indian background. And so in a sense, we had control of the narrative.

And so that felt like such a release at the time because I think that on screen, think people who were South Asian really tended to be the butt of the jokes. And suddenly now we were making the jokes. mean, we had all been doing that within our communities and our culture. I remember when Goodness Gracious Me started here in the UK, one of the questions I got from a journalist was,

are Indians funny? I never realized Indians were funny. I said, we've been funny for 5,000 years, but we didn't feel the need to tell you. So I think it was that. think that the fact that we controlled the narrative, I think was a big part of it. I think that we had an awareness of the stereotypes that had been placed upon us as we were able to play with those. And a lot of jokes. I think they were archetypes. think that, I mean, with the Kamars, which was sort of an improv chat show,

for those who don't know about a South Asian family where the spoiled son, the only son, parents have decided that they're gonna fulfill his dream of being a chat show host by building a studio onto their house. And real celebrities would come around. And once the celebrities were there, Donny Osmond was on twice, David Hasselhoff and Tom Jones and Alan Alda, one of my heroes. It was pretty much improv.

After that, we had a set of questions, but we didn't know what or how the guests would answer. We had to go with it. But because it was a family, it was parents, there was a grandmother, and there was me as the son. That traveled around the world further because people understood family. And so in that sense, guess, again, it was controlling the narrative. And I think going back to Goodness Gracious Me, whether it was the relationship between parents and kids or...

Speaker 1 (26:13.376)
employers and South Asians, we were charting a lot of not just our experiences, but I guess our parents' into something funny. I think one of the two decisions we made, I think, that were good, in retrospect certainly, was one was that I said to them, let's not subtitle anything unless it's a joke. Let people understand the context. Let somebody go and ask an Indian person what that word means.

And the second thing was that I think within the show, we kind of said, let's try to be funny first, as opposed to put our politics first. So let the politics be based on our humor, not the humor based on our politics. And I think those were the two things with it that gave it a longevity or gave it an access point. Because I think had we been political first, I think we were political, but in an understated way. And I think those...

Those two things, think, particularly, I think has given it, it's difficult to kind of put myself in the place of someone who watched it, but I think it gave it an authenticity and a warmth, think. yeah. Ultimately, people want to connect with.

I mean, as someone who watched it pretty religiously and someone who's been just a fan, but even a student of that, I mean, there's a kind of authenticity that translates very well on screen that first of all, first off, mean, both for goodness gracious me, the relativity of it to others, but then with the Kumar is like you said, sort of like this translation to any family and particularly any family of immigrant background or, or for that matter, any family period, not to mention the celebrity aspect of.

of some of that too, I think it just resonated so loudly with people. But the two things you mentioned there, right? The idea of kind of not subtitling and the idea of kind of separating out the humor from the politic and yet sort of in a subversive way, making sure that they're quite integrated. There's certainly a spectrum of quote unquote Indian-ness you can get there, right? So some of your...

Speaker 2 (28:22.636)
later work with, you know, that I particularly enjoyed with the Indian Doctor series and, you know, kind of that success that you've enjoyed playing characters who are either just soaking in Indianess and it's apparent versus others where it's just simply nominal, right? It's just a name or it's just in kind of like, you know, your appearance. How do you approach the label then that...

goes with audiences who are watching that saying, Sanjeev's a British actor. He's a British Indian actor. He's a British South Asian actor. He's just an Indian actor, period. Does that matter to you, especially as you've now been able to reflect on so many different versions of being in character? Or by the way, is it a label that tends to be an unneeded burden, particularly at this stage, different from when Goodness Gracious Me or Kumar's was on?

It doesn't bother me at all. It's kind of, you know, people labeled me before I was an actor. I mean, when I was a kid, people would see an Indian kid and label me. So it comes back to this thing about preconceptions. I think all of them are also true. I don't think any of them are contradictory. think British, British Indian, British South Asian, they're all true. So I don't have a problem with any of those. I think that, I think one gets

tuned pretty quickly to whether someone is saying something to you in a pejorative way. Sure. So to be able to kind of sense the difference between an insult, veiled or unveiled, ignorance or a joke. And so I try to give people the benefit of the doubt the first time that they're not being mean. If they are, then I'll deal with that. But so yeah, the labels don't bother me at all. Yeah.

Do you... See, this is the kind of effect you have on people. thank goodness, yeah. No, with the labels being there, they don't bother you, would you say that having had the experience of creating some of these really, really important and culturally relevant shows, and then also being a part now of...

Speaker 1 (30:20.472)
Thank goodness you're a doctor.

Speaker 2 (30:39.404)
a working career as an actor, as a writer, as a performer in so many versions, has that allowed you to get a little bit better glimpse of the levers of power and finance and control that representation perhaps requires in some of these scenes? Somehow those ladders that are whizzing by are being afforded to people so that they can present some of these things and make these kinds of artistic revelations to audiences.

Do you find that British television, British art and media versus Hollywood, you know, are parallel in how those ladders are being afforded, whether it comes from a place of power or finance or control? Is that something that's been evolving to a better place as time goes by?

That's a really interesting question because I think that the whole area and the entire industry is not a benign charity. You know, it's about money. And so something that's planned to be popular, as we found, I think, now in politics and in social politics as well and socioeconomic backgrounds, is that populism, to cover its widest area,

has to pander to the lowest denominator. And the difficulty with that is that we are always, certainly in the West, we are niche. We are a niche kind of thing. And so unless someone sees that there's going to be money made from it, it's not going to be that supported. And I think that that has got worse, I think, as an attitude or a base support. However, at the same time,

There are lots of actors from sort of Indian backgrounds who are now global Indians who have risen through the ranks and whether they're actors or writers, in particular some directors as well. Sure. And they will always be, or one hopes that they will always be more, have a more benign attitude to their ancestry. And so therefore to all of us as well than, you know, a kind of white savior type approach, which was

Speaker 1 (32:57.58)
probably the case 25 or 30 years ago. You needed some middle-aged, middle-class white guy to make that decision. so ultimately what changes it is our producers of a South Asian background, because hopefully they will, despite wanting to make money, which is nothing wrong with that, they will at least have that second thought. So I think it's, I think as a base kind of approach to celebrating

minorities, I don't think that's as strong as it was. But many members of those minorities have now risen to positions of influence. Yeah. And so it's I think it makes it interesting. think it makes it more difficult if you're starting out with your own ideas about wanting to celebrate your culture in an international way. Yeah. And also because the other thing that's changed, I think, over last 25, 30 years is that films

and culture from India has become more global. So we then have to differentiate ourselves from not just Western society, but also what modern Indian society is. And so that's a little more complicated. Not impossible to me, that's a challenge. so, people are individuals first. So whatever their experiences are of say being both Indian and.

British or Indian or American or Canadian, it'll be through their specific prism of experiences and thoughts and opinions. so each one of those people is able to shape that into something creative and that will be individual. So it's that thing of, it's a combination of being universal, but with specificity. And I think that was always the difficulty was if you were trying to be universal with some generalizations about who you were.

then the end product was never going to be, was never going to talk to anybody specifically.

Speaker 2 (34:54.86)
curious with that same sentiment then as someone who has endured and seen you know that kind of bend and swivel and change over the years especially with producers and those who are in places of control how those decisions are made behind the scenes and even you know out front as well what have you perhaps had to unlearn about yourself or perhaps even let go of

to have that kind of endurance in an industry that is truth truly, you know, can shift and change at the drop of a

think realizing that my identity wasn't entirely tied to my professional career was the main thing. know that, so when I started, I started late in age. So was 34 when I started and I had no training. I didn't do drama at school or anything like that. I obviously was carrying around some huge arrogance that believed I could do it. But I didn't have that kind of...

backing of learning or training to fall back on. So when I started, I was 34 and I thought, you know, no training, no background. I'm to give myself two years to see progress. And if I don't see progress in two years, I'm going to have to do something else. I can't spend my life banging my head against this wall. And so I drew up, I took a page of note paper and I wrote down how much I needed to earn in a year.

And so I thought I can't afford an apartment or something. I can rent a room maybe in a shared apartment. can't afford a car, so public transport, groceries you gotta have. And I thought once a month to be able to go to the movies, once a month to be able to go out for a pizza, because that was cheap, but I could be social. And once a month of being able to buy a bottle of wine. So if I went to someone's house, I had something to take. So I wasn't existing, I was living. It was a life, you know. What I realized I'd done...

Speaker 1 (36:57.358)
in retrospect was I've made a really clear delineation between my needs and wants. Anything that wasn't on that list, I did not need. And so that then translated into a life approach, which was just being clear about what I need. I have lots of things now that I don't need. And that's because I've kind of been able to afford to drift into that column of wants.

which are endless. Sure. But I know I can do without them. You know, I know because I have done and it wasn't a miserable life. I saw people, I met people, I went to the movies and kind of, you know, I had a life. So I think that was a useful lesson for me to learn to carry forward. But also based on a life of valuing experiences has meant that the job is great and I love what I do.

But what I love more than that are the experiences I'm gonna have during that job. Are the people I'm gonna meet. What I'm gonna learn from it. And so something else I said to the graduates is that I've come to realize that I can't fail. It's impossible for me to fail simply because I don't give myself that option. I can learn or I can succeed or both. And so that's fine. That's something that again has changed over time.

has being a dad to two adult children, being a husband, having those more kind of tight relationships, has that accelerated some of this learning that you talk about and like the incapacity to fail?

I think it has. Yeah. think that one thing about becoming a parent was the absolute empirical evidence that I was not the most important person on the planet. I mean, I never did think that, but he physicalized it. There was somebody who you were responsible for. Yeah. And I think that you've hit on a really key word for me, which is humility. You know, one of the things that I think

Speaker 2 (38:57.698)
deep humility to that.

Speaker 1 (39:06.306)
the way I approach my own life is realizing how much good fortune I have and I've had. And that makes me humble because again, it could have easily gone in a different direction. And I'll tell you a key thing actually that happened to me during the pandemic. I got to thinking about the posters on my wall, my bedroom wall when I was 14. And I can still picture them now. on my wall, there was Elvis and there were the Beatles.

And there was Roger Moore as James Bond. That was my era. And Monty Python because I was a big Monty Python fan. And you know, and that bedroom wall, like it is for any kid, is an escape. It's your fantasy world. It's. Yeah, it's the world. You look at that, it makes your world a little bit better. Yeah. And we lived in a in a flat above a laundromat and we had three rooms that you could heat. And so it was pretty basic living at that time. So that wall for me.

That's your sanctuary.

Speaker 1 (40:05.794)
just meant everything because they gave me so much pleasure and escape and everything else. And then I thought about how many of those people on my wall I'd met and I thought, wow, that is freaky. And then how many of those people I'd met had become friends. And I was thinking, even saying this to you now, my 14 year old's head has just exploded.

Right.

I thought, I remember thinking, how dare that 14 year old who became friends with people who were posters on his wall, how dare he ever grow up to self pity? How dare he? And so that for me was a big thing about the humility thing was that for every one of me that was thinking that and had posters that there'll be a thousand, maybe a hundred thousand, maybe a million.

didn't have those experiences. And so that is immense good fortune. So what if I don't get a job? So what if I fail the audition? Didn't fail it, I learned from it. So what if I didn't earn as much money this year or earn any money this year? All of that doesn't impact the good fortune I've had. And that then becomes a positive base for me to then look at the next step or think ahead.

And that's such a growth mindset, right? That there's a growth opportunity in everything. You're looking at life through humility. And you're right. think parenting definitely scores that a little bit differently for you because that idea that you're now in a very, different role than just simply your ego, yourself, that's constantly at the center of things. You're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. After a quick break, let's come back to our conversation with Sanjeev Bhaskar.

Speaker 2 (41:57.665)
Stay tuned.

Speaker 2 (42:04.032)
Every story told is a lesson learned and every lesson learned is a story waiting to be told. I'm Abhay Dhandekar and I share conversations with global Indians and South Asians so everyone can say, trust me, I know what I'm doing. New episodes weekly wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (42:25.89)
Hi everyone, this is Sitz Re-Rom and you're now listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing.

Speaker 2 (42:39.48)
Hi, this is Farhan Akhtar. Hi guys, I'm Ananya Pandey. Hi, this is Madhuri Dixit and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing with Abhay Dandekar.

Hi there, I'm Abhay Dandekar and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Let's rejoin our conversation now with actor, writer and presenter Sanjeev Bhaskar.

I was thinking about this before, you know, learning, getting to learn a little bit about you, your name, Sanjeev means giving life. And you do so many things actually that are, that are so noteworthy when you're devoting your energy and your time and your effort to so many different causes. But one that particularly struck me was with Socrates and with UNICEF and you know, all that, all that effort, when you think about vulnerability and particularly children, but anybody who's really vulnerable or

marginalized in the world. You know, this idea of compassion and giving and seeing the best in us so that we can make contributions to others in need. Now that you're in your sixties and again, even as a parent or as someone who lives life with humility and with a lot of grace for yourself to keep growing and learning, does giving feel different, you know, today than it did when you were that 14 year old or when you were thinking about like, all right, hey, I'm really

struggling with the, not struggling, but I have a plan for pizza and a bottle of wine. know, giving probably, I would imagine now feels very different and especially in this kind of reality of the platform you have as a celebrity.

Speaker 1 (44:18.408)
It's yeah, definitely because the perspective changes. And, the one thing about I've been a UNICEF ambassador for about five years, I think now. And it is just one of the greatest privileges. And the one thing that I find disappointing is people who politicize children, whether they be in a war zone, whether they be the so-called enemy, whatever it is, their kids, their kids.

who have potential. And so snuffing out that potential, I think is the worst thing that we can do as a race. because, you know, those kids can grow up given the right conditions, not all of them, but, you know, a lot of those kids can grow up and possibly save the planet. And so de-politicizing children in need, particularly, runs deep with me because I think that...

You know, if we think back to our childhood, all of us, there are those people who are very fortunate to have perfect childhoods, and I'm really happy for them. But we can all think back to being a child and those crucial things of either having, you know, good parents, having not so good parents, inspirational teachers, non-inspirational teachers, you know, all of those things really shape you early on.

And so I think as much love, support, encouragement and guidance that we can give children the better off we are going to be as a society. And I think as parents, I think the only thing we can really give our children, there are two things actually that we can really give our children. We can give our children our history. Yeah. So we can give them family's history, which will crisscross with all the important moments in studied history and we can give them values.

And beyond that, as much as we know about what our future holds, which is we don't, we don't know what their future holds either. And so giving them that set of values and a sense of history so they know where they've come from, so they know where they are, which is the only way you know where you're heading, I think are the two things you can do. And I think that you can do that at home with your own kids and with your own family, but you can do that for kids who are thousands of miles away and suffering.

Speaker 2 (46:39.956)
Do you think about legacy when it comes to your, certainly your career, but even your sort of professional existence and your personal existence? mean, does giving therefore become a part of that legacy? And especially the vantage point of that, I imagine is, again, different today than it was, say, in your 30s or 40s when you were first starting out. Your portraits in the National Gallery, for that matter. So there must be some legacy there. But does legacy matter to you? Is that something you think about often?

at all. It's kind of, you know, everything happens in the moment. so legacy is is ultimately going to be for other people to decide for me. I can't can't define my own legacy, but other people will whether I want to or not. And

Do your kids ask you about that? Does your family talk about that?

About legacy? Yeah. About me? No, I don't think they do. I think that it requires one to think about a time when you are no longer here and what people will think of you. And I've got no control over either of those things. And so again, you know, why would I spend my time thinking about something that I have absolutely no control over? And particularly because I think that a lot of people end up not living

in the present and the present is all there is. so, you know, it's a constant life is a constant series of presence. Yeah. And another word for present is gift. And so, you know, these moments are all gifts. mean, me talking to you, you know, I can add that to my kind of bag of fantastic experiences. So, you know, I feel enriched by that now.

Speaker 1 (48:25.088)
what this will mean to someone else and what this will mean in the future, I've got no idea.

If this is the ladder that accelerates you to even further greatness, there be some magical light that chimes.

Yeah, I'll take it.

No, I mean, that's such a wonderful way of viewing things and sure, like engaging in this way is always in the moment. And like you said, it's a gift to be available and present and living in that style.

Also, think a lot of people will defer defining their present by retrospection. So, you know, the thing that's happening today, I'll only know if it was good, if what it leads to is great. And I can look back on this moment and say, well, that was a good moment. And if it doesn't lead to something great, then I'll look back on this moment and say, well, that wasn't so good.

Speaker 2 (49:15.308)
I have a lot to live up to here. is.

So in that sense, it's kind of, it's trying to extract as much learning and enjoyment from your present, that experience that you're having, the thoughts that you're having now. And the thing that happens later on is the thing that happens later on. You know, they may be connected by, you know, one thing may physically lead to another, but you can still view them as two separate experiences and two separate thoughts.

And for me, it's like I find audition for a movie and I do the audition. You know, most people, it's same with an interview for a job, right? People will go in for an interview for a job and they will only define that experience of that interview if they get the job as good, right? If they don't get the job, they'll say, my interview was a disaster. That doesn't help me. And whether I think in the present, and a lot of people are superstitious about this,

You there are a lot of people who say, look, I'll hold back from saying this was great in case it turns out not to be. Sure. The thing it turns out to be is another separate thing. You you kind of enjoying it now or valuing the positives from it now, you know, has no bearing on the outcome. And so you can hold on to that as a positive affirming.

Right.

Speaker 1 (50:41.002)
experience and particularly around language. You know, the language we use in our heads, I think is really important. So for instance, you know, if I'm going through something difficult and someone might say to me, well, that sounds like a nightmare. Now, that's just common parlance, right? That's how people speak. Yeah. I can't say yes, it's a nightmare because for a nightmare for me is what's happening in Gaza or Ukraine. That's a nightmare.

And if I, you this thing that didn't go so well today, I've described as a nightmare, where the hell am I gonna go if tomorrow's worse? And secondly, and more importantly for me, this today that has not gone in the way that I hoped it would, I have no idea where it's leading to. It may lead to something incredible in a week's time or in two weeks' time. So that, you know, trying to sit in a kind of...

in a bubble of positivity, humility, and gratitude has become increasingly important to me. And that's what I try to impart to other people. Whether they accept what I say or not is not my call. That's up to them. I'll respect whatever decision they make.

There's an element to that that is striking me as especially what you were talking about earlier with, you know, kind of the iconic elements of your childhood and how much import you perhaps are governed by when it comes to reverence of some of these icons. So, I mean, you mentioned Monty Python and let's say, you know, let's say Life of Brian and Roger Moore.

and Elvis and the Beatles and Paul McCartney. These are all heroes and icons. And I wonder if there is, they deserve reverence in a way for you. And yet as a comedian at heart and someone who is writing, know, hilarious comedy is often born out of complete irreverence and the ability to push those boundaries a little bit away from what we revere or at least change our

Speaker 2 (52:50.478)
our attitudes sometimes towards things that we revere. How do you marry those two together? Especially in knowing that this reverence is still governing for you in a

I don't think I revere them. I think that's the difference. I'm immensely grateful to them. Because in low moments, they made me feel less low. And so I have immense gratitude towards them. I think, I mean, I'm friends with some of the Monty Python guys and they are, I they're in their eighties now. They are still irreverent.

And I find that incredibly encouraging. Same with one of my heroes, Alan Alda, who's been a close friend now for 20 years. He's this amazing mixture of open, profound, empathetic, and irreverent. I think that skepticism has a healthy aspect to it. If one is also open and generous, where skepticism, I think, is destructive is when one is closed.

and selfish. And that's the thing I got from all of those guys. Roger Moore as well was fantastically irreverent. And I think that the thing that all of them, the ones that I've met, Paul as well, McCartney, the thing that they all have in boundless terms, as does my mother, who's in her mid 80s now, is curiosity. Your curiosity is their driving force.

And I think that along with that irreverence and along with generosity of spirit, they're the ones that, they're the aspects of them that I wish to emulate. Their skills are their skills. I don't have their skills. I can strum a guitar a bit, but I can't write yesterday and Lady Madonna. I can't do that. I don't think I could write Life of Brian, but I see them as people and their characteristics.

Speaker 1 (54:57.408)
And I kind of see those elements that I kind of think, wow, that's really healthy. That's great. That's great. And so they're inspirations that way. I don't think, I don't feel I revere them. I love them all, but I don't revere them. Yeah, no. I don't think I revere my mother. And she's kind of like the nicest person I've ever met, because my mom also has that irreverent side, which is where I got mine from.

And so I've seen reverence, I suppose it's personal experiences, but I've seen reverence blind people. Yeah. And so that's why it doesn't appeal to me.

Let me get you out of here on this one. And we started off with introductions and thinking about, you know, entering a party space and how you feel in those, you know, particular social situations. So for those who are maybe discovering your work for the first time, and those who might even meet you in person for the first time, as they're getting to know you and as they're really shaping their view about your reverence and irreverence and how they're

how they're making impressions of those first meetings. What do you hope they take away? How do you hope they feel? What do hope they're saying upon meeting you for the first time, or for that matter, viewing your work for the first time?

that's a really, really good question. Difficult question to answer, actually. mean, mean, you know, I first of all, think they have the right to take away whatever impression they've got. So. It's very difficult for people to see intention in others. think, you know, most people, I think, respond to the overt, you know, what they're hearing, what they're seeing. Nothing wrong with that. That's how we.

Speaker 1 (56:42.786)
generally assess people. I'm approaching this in the way that what would I think if I was meeting someone for first time, right? And so what you can't see is their intention sometimes. And I think that I think I look for that more than many people. I'm trying to look at what's behind the behavior, the question, the answer. In the back of my head is kind of what's behind it. Because I think that's going to be more revealing to me than

just responding to whatever I see on the outside. So I think with people with me, mean, I hope they enjoy what I do. I hope that they feel kindly towards me. I mean, the whole thing about collective consciousness, I think is a real thing. And so, I think what the universe does when the universe looks at us as people, I remember reading a line years ago about a guy said, he was told that the universe gives you everything that you ask for.

And this guy said, well, that's not true. You I said I wanted money and I didn't get any money. And the response was, yeah, the universe gave you the want. And so I think, you know, again, in how we view ourselves in our heads, the language we use in our heads about ourselves, I think is really, really important. And so in terms of what other people think of me, it really is up to them. I really don't mind. It's kind of, you know, the people that I...

I'm comfortable with judging me, will not judge me. You know, they're the ones who will give me the kind of the kindest truth about me. I don't want to hear people. I was saying to someone recently that, you know, if I was in a room with 10 people like me, I mean, we would get along. We'd be really funny, but I wouldn't have learned anything. Yeah. So I want to be in a room with kind of, you know, 10 people are not like me and to find what the common ground is, because that's going to possibly

move me onwards and upwards and to a greater depth or to any depth at all. So yeah, I think what people think of me on first meeting me or see my work is whatever they take away from it. And if it makes them feel a little bit better about their life, then I'm really honored. I'm honored to be a footnote in that moment for them.

Speaker 2 (59:02.488)
Sanjeev, I can't tell you how much of an honor this was. Probably amongst the most really meaningful and thoughtful conversations in a long time for me personally. And on top of that, I know that people are admiring and celebrating your humility, your grace, your talent worldwide. So thank you so much for joining.

Now, thank you very much. I appreciate that. you know, anybody who's sending me positive thoughts, I really appreciate it.

Thanks so much and you can catch up with Sanjeev in Unforgotten Series 6 coming this August. You heard it here first on Trust Me Know What I'm Doing. It's never too early or late to practice a random act of kindness. And if you have a chance, try and be kind to the earth that we inhabit and walk on every day. Till next time, I'm Abhay Dhandekar.