TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT I'm DOING

Speaker 1 (00:00)
Hi, I'm Madame Gandhi. My newest album, Let Me Be Water is out now. You're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing.

Speaker 2 (00:11)
My name is Abhay Dandekar and I share conversations with talented and interesting individuals linked to the global Indian and South Asian community. It's informal and informative, adding insights to our evolving cultural expressions, where each person can proudly say, trust me, I know what I'm doing.

Hi everyone, on this next episode of Trust Me I Know What I'm Doing, we share a conversation with artist and activist, Madame Gandhi. Stay tuned.

Here some breaking news. I honored and grateful for you right now. You made a choice and an effort to engage here with Trust Me I Know What I Doing and make it part of your day and even a small part of your life. I appreciate you watching and subscribing on YouTube, listening on all the podcast platforms, rating and writing reviews, following on those good old social media places, and sharing this with all your friends and family. If you really got something to get off your chest, celebrate, or are just feeling friendly, send a message over to info at abhayadharandekara.com

as I'd love to hear from you. Now in the end, and mind you, we certainly don't always take advantage of this, but we're all just simply students in life's big classroom. Now I don't just mean academic or apprenticeship or observational knowledge, but rather taking a true curiosity about the world around us and translating that into an expression or interpretive thesis. And this gets even better and at a bigger scale when that also sparks a sense of power, reflection, movement, and activism in those around you.

Now, few artists embody the intersection of activism, artistry, and empowerment as seamlessly as Giren Gandhi, better known as the award-winning performer, Madame Gandhi. Born in Boston and living all over the world, Madame Gandhi has built a global reputation for using rhythm and lyricism as great tools for social change, championing gender liberation and inclusivity through every single beat and verse.

Her journey is marked by an insatiable curiosity and a commitment to lifelong learning, manifested by her academic work in completing an MBA at Harvard and a master's at Stanford in music science and technology. She also exudes a really creative and bold activism in recording sounds of glaciers melting in Antarctica to free bleeding while running the London Marathon. She's been an analyst for Interscope Records, a drummer for rapper MIA, released three previous studio albums,

And her latest album now, Let Me Be Water, featuring Nature, stands as a testament to her collaborative spirit and innovative approach. This album was born from a songwriting camp designed to uplift female and gender expansive producers and songwriters. And the album is both a celebration of community and a statement against the exclusivity often found in the music industry. I truly found the heart of her work to be a commitment to joy, bright fearlessness, sustainability,

and the power of music to really inspire and reflect transformation. So we caught up to talk about Let Me Be Water and the various elements of trust, energy, musicianship, and more. But with all of her work as an artist, musician, activist, performer, DJ, producer, and speaker, I was so curious to know about how she continues to learn and discover even more roles in hats to wear as she grows both personally and professionally.

Speaker 1 (03:40)
It's so amazing that you're asking this question because it's a loud and resounding yes. It doesn't matter what I'm learning and growing in. even today I was in studio practicing a different DJ technology because I'm so used to using a controller, but I want to be able to use CDJs more frequently. And so I've been, yeah, just booking studio time and literally rehearsing on CDJs, which...

has been unlocking a whole world of possibility and potential for me as a performer. So that's been, you know, in terms of professional development and career development, that's a skillset that I'm really excited. And today I had a great practice session. So when you're making progress, it always feels really empowering. And then on a super personal note, I love rock climbing and I love bouldering. And somebody else has always belayed me when I want to do the rope climbing or the top rope.

But today I actually did my certification to be able to belay and supervise others while they're climbing and it was just so fun to like be studying for a test again and then to pass with flying colors and like receive a certification to belay somebody else. It was the simplest thing but you know now I can take my partner's kids belaying, know, speaking about pediatrics. I can take my partner's kids rock climbing. They're 9 and 11 years old and we don't have to depend on the instructor. I love learning. It empowers me.

humbles me, it keeps me young and youthful and open-minded. It exposes me to different people's walks of life, which then is how I write the lyrics that I do. And so yeah, I appreciate the opportunity to reflect on that question because I'm proud to be DJing in Rock Climate.

Speaker 2 (05:17)
love that. mean, you know, DJ, engineer, a mountaineer and an adventurer, but you're right. There's like so many different ways that we can just, you know, continue to sponge it all in. For someone who does really like enjoy to learn so deeply, and I've asked this question to others before, because you're an avid learner, because you're someone who really like soaks in and gets deep into some of these things, is there a challenge of being someone who has so much breath?

where sometimes taking the deep dive and like really seeking a vertical and being great at one thing can, can also, both of those things can be sort of creative tensions with each other.

Speaker 1 (05:56)
Absolutely. It's a big tension. It's been that way since I was a kid because my dad would often be critical about us not being focused or us, the classic phrase, which I think has now been debunked, but Jack of all trades, master of none. But I've analyzed this so many times and I do think I am good at quite a few things at a high level because I'm consistent with those things. So I've been developing my music and songwriting and production and lyricism and on stage performance and public speaking since I was...

four years old or something, so that's decades. And then I think the reason why I enjoy being wide instead of deep, if I had to make a choice, is it's actually related to quality of life. It's related to quality of life. I actually enjoy being exposed to so many different things and opening my mind and being good and aware of many different things. And that's what contributes to my wisdom, to my ability to get along with so many different types of people.

to be fearless, to challenge my own understanding of how the world is. These are a high priority for me. And the times when I go deep in one thing, it ends up being a sacrifice. it's interesting because I think we get a lot of reward out of going deep into something. And I think I've had ⁓ great experiences. But then I come up for air and I'm like, my God, I'm missing out on the world.

I think that's a trade-off that people have made and they win Grammys for it. They have millions of followers for it because they are the expert, they are the leading person because they've been in devotion to the one thing. And I can learn a lot from them. But I've also enjoyed quality of life because I've kept my passions and my viewpoint high and wide.

Speaker 2 (07:37)
Yeah, and that actually, that's a wonderful way of think outlining that because it does allow you, I agree, to have a very, very strong and in fact quick empathy with so many people. Like you can relate that way. We'll go back to the fearless part because at least from a Sanskrit standpoint, fearless is the meaning of my name and yours being sort of brightness and sunlight for yours. Good way to combine the two, right?

Speaker 1 (08:04)
Yes, wow.

Speaker 2 (08:05)
Awesome. So I was thinking a little bit about this. Often an album release signals the finish line or like the opening night of a gallery or a theater. But I'm also so curious to know how and when Let Me Be Water was born. And if there was at all any series of aha moments or did you have to play connect the dots with some particular key signature moments or epiphanies of sort? Or was it just like,

Boy, it seems like a good time for us to chronicle ⁓ some pieces I've been working on and get it out there.

Speaker 1 (08:41)
That's incredible. So I've had three EPs before that, Voices, Visions, and Vibrations, and those were projects that I led and created myself in partnership with many different people, but it was 100 % my vision. And Let Me Be Water was really cool because two years ago I was approached by a friend of mine who runs an organization that encourages women and girls and gender-expensive people to be better producers and songwriters and have access to opportunities. And she said,

Why don't we run a songwriting camp where we give opportunity to 40 different up and coming female and gender expensive songwriters and write music for you. And I was like, no, no, no, I write my own music. That's the whole point of why I do what I do. And I don't want to do that. And I'm grateful because she's not just, you know, a friend. I would say she's a mentor as well. And I think, and she was like, I think you would benefit from a process like this. she said, you know,

Worst comes to worst, you have just had the three day, five day experience and you don't have to do anything with the music. It can just be an experience for them to learn something. That's where it can begin and end. And so think because she said that, you know, I was like, okay, fine, fine. So we had to choose a winning song. And again, there was no promise that the song even had to come out. But by the end of it, of course, there was so much bonding. was so impressed with the 10 teams that I announced the winning song, which is now Rise, the closing song of the whole album. But I told the 10 teams that we were actually going to take.

all 10 songs and make them into an album. And so I made them that promise. And I also understood that commercially in our music industry, so many people are in these songwriting camps with the hope of the upside, which is that your song gets chosen. But most of the time you're putting in free labor to not have any upside. And those rooms are very tight. They're very exclusive. And obviously women get fall into the wayside and passed up for opportunity. And so I knew that

Beyond the camp, we could give folks a bigger opportunity by giving real streams and real royalties and real credit on Spotify and its streaming services. we took all of the stems, we took all of the recordings and we basically continued producing them to taste. And we muted a lot of things and rearranged things. And I told the team, the internal team, it's been my dream to take some of my work public speaking and actually put it to music. And can that be something that's built out and beautiful?

And they said, yeah, let's do it. And so they helped me go through all of my speeches from the last few years and really craft this story and this journey that is now Let Me Be Water. So I think it was an unexpected album. And so I think because the process was so supported and beautiful, and I'm proud of the 10 songs, that I love the 10 songs, I didn't feel stressed when release day came. I felt like at ease.

Speaker 2 (11:22)
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's a great way to think about it, right? Like anything that you do that you're putting out there, if you're at peace with and if you're at ease with as opposed to wow, the stress of something opening and how's it going to perform and whatnot, it seems like this is almost like a commencement and graduation of thoughts, right?

Speaker 1 (11:41)
Definitely.

Yeah, I have so much academic experiences, so many academic experiences that I was thinking how funny that we put out the album in May, because it did feel like a graduation. I'm seeing people with their school uniforms, I'm seeing people post on Instagram their graduation. I related to that. I have enjoyed going to Harvard Business School to do my master's at Stanford, do my undergrad at Georgetown, my high school at Chapin. I went to school in Hong Kong University, I've gone to school in India.

all of these incredible places. And I think of the times when they've overly worked us and they've given us these like incredibly challenging academic commitments. And I think the rigor of these places is why they're so reputable because they're hard, they're tough places. And I would be pulling all-nighters to meet the deadlines and to get good grades. And I would be ordering food to my dorm at three in the morning. And I think when you're 18, 19, you can do that. But.

You know, my most recent master's, I was 33. And it is interesting to see how when you're 33 and you've already had a career, you're like, I don't want to pull it all night or I don't want to be ordering bad food and putting on weight and feeling stressed and unhappy. The whole point of this degree is to expand myself. So someone taught me this idea of like three concentric circles. The center is, you know, your comfort zone. The next

Concentric circle is the opportunity for growth that place where you're really pushing and expanding yourself But then that third concentric circle is actually a red zone It's actually where you're pushing too hard and it ends up being a little bit traumatizing such that you don't want to push again Yeah, and it's like if you bully a kid when they're trying to learn something now they've associated learning with a negative experience where they didn't feel safe or Valued or seen or that they weren't successful. So now they feel bad about their confidence

And I think I have danced in all three zones and I have a much better understanding of where I want to be. And anyone who knows me would say that I'm constantly seeking growth. But what I've learned is that I don't actually want to be burning out and crushing it and, you know, like putting out so much music and having a factory and being a capitalist, you know, beast at the age of 36 that I am now. Like I actually want to be of enjoyment and growth and sustainable and

functioning and restful and I want to live to a hundred years old and so yeah that that framework has helped me a lot understand how I want to work.

Speaker 2 (14:14)
You're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. After a quick break, let's come back to our conversation with artist and activist, Madame Gandhi. Stay tuned.

Conversation. It's the antidote to apathy and the catalyst for relationships. I'm Abhay Dhandekar and I share conversations with global Indians and South Asians so everyone can say, trust me, I know what I'm doing. New episodes weekly wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Vivek Murthy. I'm the 21st Surgeon General of the United States, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing.

Hi everyone, this is Chef Vikas Khanna. Hi, I'm Karan Soni. Hi everyone, my name is Tan France.

Speaker 1 (15:15)
Hello,

Hi, I'm Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, and you are listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing.

Speaker 2 (15:29)
Welcome back to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Let's rejoin our conversation now with artist and activist, Madame Gandhi. I want to jump on that idea of the academics and the three concentric circles that you beautifully refer to there, because when I listened to the album, I enjoyed it so much and I almost came away from it like I had experienced a curriculum of sorts. Wow. At least lyrically, did you feel like this expression was capturing

at or maybe some affirmation or sort of that chronicled self-syllabus as a result of that series of experiences that you had with these in the camp that way, or for that matter, even just the experiences that you've had living in those three concentric circles, did it feel like sort of a chronicling of this syllabus that you can now put out there for people to experience?

Speaker 1 (16:22)
No, definitely. I really appreciate that reframe because academic environments, teaching yoga, teaching young people, I mean, even teaching my partner's kids various skill sets, mentoring young people. It gives me a lot of joy and I get the feedback, Kieran, you're a good teacher. You know, you're patient. You've helped me understand this. I appreciate that. And that feedback makes me feel good. And so, yes, I love the idea of let me be water being a musical syllabus.

and a graduation at the end when you rise. So thank you for that.

Speaker 2 (16:55)
Yeah, I felt like especially listening sequentially, which of course is rare for those of us who grew up with albums and you know, hey, we're gonna listen to front to back and not just the sound bites of it. That experience of recreation certainly now fits and matches, especially what you've been doing for so long. Lyrically, right? The album has so much brightness to it. But again, you're a drummer at heart. So, you know, in the end, and while you have...

been able to gather so much breath from all the experiences musically and from all the other endeavors that you've put so much effort into, being a drummer at your core, were there some instrumental or rhythmic highlights that you are particularly proud of with this release?

Speaker 1 (17:42)
love the percussion in Rise and the beat in Rise. I think that global percussive uplifting sound will always be true to my heart. also really appreciated the darkness and moodiness of Luminescence. It's a direction that I wouldn't have gone in, because one of the teams had put forth that song.

I felt it was honest because it's like, is true. I don't really put my messiness in my music. I only put the brightness once I've done the internal work. I never really show the vulnerability. And so I appreciated them reminding me that that's actually more relatable than the graduation moment. My friend played like flute, pan flute on luminescent. And it's so interesting because it was such a random song. And it actually is some of the people's favorite now because.

Speaker 2 (18:19)
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:31)
It's moody and it's got like a kind of cool energy to it. Take Your Time is the second track. I mean, that's the most famous track on the whole album. It's the pop banger. It's kind of our Disney song that is just beautiful and has harmonies and, you know, gang vocals and everyone sang on it. But again, that was a difficult one for me as well to ingest because I was like, this is a clean polished, happy pop song. And everyone's like, no, it's good music. And when you put your own heart and lyrics into it and

immerse your authenticity into it, the song will come to life. And of course, that was the best advice that I received. And I am grateful that I remained open minded rather than being like, no, that's cheesy pop music. Like I can't be part of that because of course now it's everyone's favorite song on the whole album.

Speaker 2 (19:17)
I mean, and when you do listen to something, right, something that stays endearing and enduring, it could be new and you're sort of discovering new little nuances about a piece of music. But then there's also the one that does naturally stick in your head, you know, all day long. And sometimes those are also needed to both uplift and make you think of new emotions and experiences. Your background is so eclectic and I loved getting to sort of learn a little bit more about you and thinking about this conversation. And then on top of that now sort of

going through it with you and, know, so rooted in, like you mentioned, academia, but then also in your surroundings and nature and in solidarity with those who are on the margins, because I think that's been what seems like a mission of yours. And do you find yourself to be more and more at peace with the sort of breadth of those experiences that give you particularly joy and liberation?

and stillness versus perhaps do they only fuel and accelerate a yearning to explore and actually find more motion. So the idea between like, well, peace and content and stillness are, so valuable in these spaces. And particularly when we're thinking about preservation and the natural surroundings that we're in and a light footprint versus the incredible value of movement and motion and exploration.

Do you constantly have to sort of toggle between these two when it comes to how you're expressing yourself artistically?

Speaker 1 (20:49)
really appreciate this question. I know that I love having power on stage. I take up space. I'm very American in that sense. I have a context now because I've been living in London. And so all the British tell me that I am, you know, loud and I have a strong voice and I take up space. And so sometimes I laugh because I'm like, that's such an American upbringing. But beyond that, even when I was living in India, I do give my parents credit for raising us as, you know, my sister and I as women and then my brother as well.

Yeah, to own our voice and to have a perspective and to share our perspective and to not be shy. so in that sense, I love my live show because I'm switched on, I'm connected, I'm fearless, I'm at ease, I'm making eye contact with the audience. I want them to feel included, safe, alive, present, joyful, at ease as well. But I know that in order to do that and for me to feel loose, open, relaxed, myself, energetic,

that's where the stillness is required behind the scenes. So they absolutely work in tandem. And when I'm too much all over the place and traveling and emails and iPhone and all of this, it makes it more more difficult to be still. And then the quality of the show is actually poor because the mind is racing. So.

It's, they go together. The more still I am, the more explosive I'm able to be in the places where it matters. And also, you know, I love fitness. I had a boxing fight last year, my first ever fight to actually be in the ring. I won the match, the fight, you know, this year we've been running and training and rock climbing. Like I think also physically being fit is of high importance to me.

Speaker 2 (22:31)
Boy, I'm gonna have to add a ton of stuff to your introduction here. This is great.

Speaker 1 (22:38)
And then one other thing you taught me, I think maybe relate to this is pediatrics because you're seeing kids in their most elemental. But you know, I've always known that when I was like eight, nine years old, I was really unstoppable. I was so confident. I was so happy. I was self-aware. I was respectful. I was artistic. I was making robots and, you know, fashion and...

coordinating the talent show. I was like winning public speaking competitions. And then I went to private school and I was bullied and quieted and gained weight and didn't feel like my authentic self. And then I went to Georgetown, which was quite patriarchal in a weird way. At that time, you couldn't even get birth control on campus, which...

You know, not that that was like, that's fine. That's a priority, of course, but more in the sense of like, it just gives you a kind of awareness of the place that it was, you know, not so in the present moment, aware of women and girls needs. And, you know, I think these experiences were challenging and upsetting and I spent a lot of time alone and I didn't feel welcome in many places and, know,

I had acne and I never had a boyfriend and all of these different things that you're supposed to experience that I never did. And I think when I make my music and over time, it's about coming back to that eight-year-old self, like the freeness and the authenticity and the maybe being a little bit on the spectrum and brave, whatever it is. So that's the sort of full circle that...

that does inspire me. It's like this archetype of coming back to the true self, to the youth, you know.

Speaker 2 (24:19)
Does it take age, perhaps, and experience to recognize that integration that's needed between the stillness and the power and the sort of exuberance that you have? Like you mentioned all these experiences and the big harmony in some ways now reflecting back on those very positive and wonderful experiences as a child and then the guardrails that you were in challenges that you were faced in other situations.

But I mean, is aging gracefully as an artist and as a human, does that give you at least, have you found that that gives you at least a little bit of a reflective dimension on how to now harmonize all of

Speaker 1 (25:03)
Yes. And it keeps us young, youthful, light, because emotionally when you heal from those experiences, you cry them out, you let them go, you are honest that they were hurtful experiences rather than pretending like they had no effect. Emotionally, my spirit is lighter. My physical being is lighter. I'm not carrying weight. I'm jumping around. I'm happy. I'm more carefree. I can make fun of myself without feeling like

I'm being bullied. I think for the longest time I would get the feedback that I was very overly sensitive. And I think I've only recently in the last few years understood what that actually means, which is that somebody else doesn't have a context that I was bullied somewhere along the way and that poking fun of me could actually be hurtful. They're just like, I love you, so I'm making fun of you and it's because I see you. It's actually supposed to be quite sweet. But I definitely had a tough time receiving that kind of playfulness. And so I think that's also a good shift for us to not take ourselves seriously, to be light.

that's of high importance to love ourselves authentically is of high importance. But this is what I was going to say when you're talking about like, yeah, having these experiences. Here's the funny part is that I feel like as a young person, I was told like, you know, college is going to be the best four years of your life or like, you know, you need to go to these universities to then learn this to then get this job to then have this resume to then be chosen for this. And I'm telling you as a kid, I'd be like, I don't get it. Like none of that makes sense to me. Like I'm happy right now. You know, I never, it never made sense to me. And so

I think the only thing that I feel going through all these experiences is like, yeah, I knew these experiences weren't going to necessarily be the best experiences for me. I already knew that. so, but I have to participate in these things because that's what's told to me as a kid and that's what's encouraged of me to do. And of course I'm grateful for my education and for being mentally stimulated and all these kinds of things. But what it's taught me is to be, to trust that intuition that it's there for reason.

Speaker 2 (26:58)
Yep. And there's an important message there too, that like, you know, we just live in a system that values this futurism as opposed to

being very, very self-aware and cognizant of the now. And that's very hard to do when the messages around you are just constantly, constantly hitting on that futurism of like, know, point, have to go from point A to B to C and it's very linear. And that's the only way to do it when of course we know that that's not always the case at all. You're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. After a quick break, let's come back to our conversation with artist and activist, Madame Gandhi.

Stay tuned.

Every story told is a lesson learned and every lesson learned is a story waiting to be told. I'm Abhay Dandekar and I share conversations with global Indians and South Asians so everyone can say, trust me, I know what I'm doing. New episodes weekly wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Hi everyone, this is Sid Sriram and you're now listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing.

Hi, this is Farhan Akhtar. Hi, I'm Ananya Panday. Hi, this is Madhuri Dixit and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing with Abhay Dandekar.

Namaskar, namaste, and nama-slay. I'm Sushant Divgikar also known as Rani Ko-He-Noor, And you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Hi there, I'm Abhay Dandekar, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Let's rejoin our conversation now with artist and activist, Madame Gandhi. I wanted to reflect on one line from Rise that kind of struck me. The line shares that thoughts and words aligned, actions energized, right? And I just...

Speaker 1 (28:37)
This is a Shande.

Speaker 2 (29:04)
I'm hearing you speak and I'm hearing this conversation. You know, I wonder if it's, it's definitely feels like a call to action for those who are listening to it and, you know, giving folks that sense of empowerment, but is there also, is that basically just a proxy for your own persona?

Speaker 1 (29:20)
I mean, we have to make music that at the very least we would look back on ourselves and be proud of and say, okay, that's real. And also that helps me when I, maybe my future self might go off the path, you you listen to your own music and you're like, okay, come back on the path. you know, it's thoughts, words, actions. This is like, you sit in meditation, you feel the authenticity of your being, true self. You speak your desires, your words into existence. They're also honest, they're matching your thoughts.

And then the final layer is action and human action is prompted by desire. It's prompted by emotions. It's prompted by fear. It's prompted by bravery. And so I do think the most important thing we can do is be aware of our own mind, our own thoughts, make our thoughts work for ourselves because that's how we're going to speak. And then eventually that's how we're going to act.

And then if we really want to get deep with it, our life is measured by the course of our choices, our micro choices every day. These days I've been really prioritizing my health and my fitness and my routine. And I love wellness technology. It's so nerdy. It goes back to my eight year old self where I always had a little watch on and I loved robots and math and all these kinds of things. It's so authentic for me, but it's also because I'm 36 and I'm like.

These are the years, these last few years, you can really put some effort into your longevity strategy because after that, like, know,

Speaker 2 (30:44)
I'm

54, so I'm hoping that that longevity strategy is one that you continue to revisit.

Speaker 1 (30:52)
Me too, me too.

Speaker 2 (30:54)
I wanted to ask you this. I read a piece where you described your work as flow existing without pushback. And I thought about that a little bit. And while that's incredibly true, I was also thinking about the balance measure of it because there's also a beauty and a creative energy that gets accelerated with pushback. And those pushbacks help forge new direction.

and they actuate and they create new spaces. So for you, do you need pushback in your life sometimes to generate that creativity and innovation or even to better define that which you need to overcome? And are you someone who seeks that out from your producers, your partners, the people around you? Once they forge those trusting relationships, is pushback important so that you can actually

develop this flow that exists and flourishes.

Speaker 1 (31:57)
I think you actually just coupled the question with the magic sauce, which was trust. Until you had said that, I was like, I definitely do not enjoy pushback because I've had more pushback and structure and rigidity. Not structure, that structure is fine, but controlled environments that I don't agree with. I've had that for most of my life given the way that I've grown up. And so that's why...

flow and freedom are high value, high priority values for me. But when you mentioned trust, then that's a whole different thing because I actually absolutely enjoy pushback in the sense of someone challenging me to do better and to grow. That's actually the highest. That's the best case scenario. If I'm in the gym and someone's like, you can lift heavier. I think you can do five more. That's the best. ⁓

You know, that's exactly, I trust that person. I'm grateful to them for pushing me. say thank you afterwards, even on Let Me Be Water, when everyone's like, no, this song is magic. Like good songs are undeniable. Put your lyrics, make it your own, and it's going to work. They were of course right. So you're, you're absolutely right. When there's trust, when there's love, when there's care, when I feel the vibration of someone wanting the thing to be the best it can be, absolutely being challenged to grow is my happy place. I think I'm just thinking of like so many environments.

where things are rigid and structured and it doesn't feel like it's with intelligence or with care or for my benefit. It's because that's what's easier for the environment to manage all of us or because that's how we get into being some kind of pre-professional career, all these different things. So ⁓ that's how I was thinking about it.

Speaker 2 (33:41)
Yeah, absolutely. Those environments are, you know, I imagine to be mostly depersonalized and therefore it's hard to forge trusting relationships and be yourself and, and also make sure that you're, we're all expressing important resistances to, you know, structural oppression and all those things that I think we, need to be much more attentive towards. I have two linked thoughts and these were sort of.

snippets that I was thinking of in finding an organic way to sort of toggle between these two. But the first one really thinks about this in that what are elements of your identity that you've prioritized on this latest album?

Speaker 1 (34:26)
peace,

feminine maternal wisdom, humility, openness, personal power, bravery.

Speaker 2 (34:38)
Now, I'm gonna ask a sort of side question there. Like, it's so amazing that none of all of those are qualifiers and others would have answered that and just thought made the thinking of like, well, I'm South Asian, I am an Indian American, I'm a British or whatever those, you know, kind of external labels are. So the second part of that is.

And I think this will probably be a much different answer than what I was expecting in this thought exercise was in so many cases, we link to ego and tribal identities with those kind of labels that we put on each other. And I wonder what you feel about those tribal identities being barriers to unity and progress. And, you know, are there ever opportunities that are better realized when we just check our egos?

and identities at the door so that we can enter those spaces with that much more openness and empathy. In a way, is it actually important for us to think about our priorities as being qualities as opposed to those labels?

Speaker 1 (35:43)
I mean, this is a beautiful question. I think it's difficult for people to leave their ego at the door because what is celebrated as ego is the perceived confidence of I'm the best at what I do. I'm the guy to call. I'm the hero. I'm hot. I'm on Instagram. I have millions of followers. I'm wealthy. I'm healthy. You know, all of these different things. It's interesting. Even with health, it ends up being quite a

it becomes such a narcissistic industry when actually like us taking care of ourselves in a genuine way, in a routine way on a daily basis is actually kind to others because it means that.

you can be of service, you know, and that you actually are in a position to give. Not that it's, it's an, like, I also receive a lot of care. Absolutely. But I do think of me taking care of myself is so that I can be in a position to take care of others. It doesn't feel narcissistic. Yeah. Though I have to, you know, keep it in check when I watch Instagram videos of how to have abs and things like that. I'm like, this is a fully narcissistic endeavor. yet, you know, I'd love to have all the, all the strength that's required for me be on the planet. So

So I think it's just about the context that we live in. Like when I'm in spiritual communities, I'm so aware of my ego. It's so helpful for me to have the mirror and to laugh at it be like, wow, this is so hard programmed within me. And then when I'm in more competitive environments where there's tons of ego, it's such a pleasure for me to be like, okay, cool. In this environment, I'm far more spiritual, far more calm, less responsive to competitive behavior. So I see where I exist on the spectrum.

⁓ but it's, I do think it's, it's about the environment that we live in and what's in courage. And unfortunately with the kind of person we have in the white house, the kind of way that technology is going, absolutely. It's the ego that is encouraged of both men and women and all genders, you know, part of the conversation. So I tried to be motivated from a place of devotion and service, it doesn't mean that my ego is, you know, it comes up when I'm feeling insecure and on Instagram.

Speaker 2 (37:41)
Right. Well, nor does it have to come at the expense of your history, your own arc and experience of identity. And as sometimes that evolves, it's great to, you know, make sure that we balance this idea of the pride that we have in who we are, but also at the same time, the openness and empathy of not letting ourselves get siloed with that. Yes. Let me get you out of here on this one. And that is, you know, especially for those who may be

discovering your work for the first time. How is this new album and even your catalog of music and art and activism, how do you hope it cultivates trust, especially for some of these new audiences?

Speaker 1 (38:24)
There's a simple answer. When I listen back to the music, I think what we manage to achieve is a level of sincerity. I think it's really hard to sample speeches and ideas and conscious lyrics without it sounding overbearing or exhausting to listen to or preachy. My perspective is that it feels genuine. When you listen back, it feels sincere. It feels...

Like in the way that I'm delivering the speech, I myself am discovering these ideas and qualities and just wanting to share them in good faith. And so the way I build trust is through the offering and the sincerity of the piece. It's not demanding your attention. It's offering you something that might be of value to you to listen to in the mornings.

Speaker 2 (39:10)
Yeah. Well, with sincerity and faith and so much that I think audiences new and not so new are going to be enjoying for a long time. This was terrific. I enjoyed it so much and we wish you nothing but the best. I hope we can visit with you again down the road.

Speaker 1 (39:28)
Thank you so much for this. I mean, when is your, are you a Pisces as well? When is your birthday?

Speaker 2 (39:34)
I'm close. I'm an Aries, so I'm an April 3rd guy.

Speaker 1 (39:38)
Okay, happy belated to you. you so much. about you? I'm end of February.

Speaker 2 (39:44)
end of February. Well, wonderful. mean, this was such a lovely conversation and thanks so much again. And you can learn so much more about Madame Gandhi at madamegandhi.com and please check out Let Me Be Water as it's available everywhere. You know what else is available everywhere? Trust me, I know what I'm doing. And if you feel inclined to do so, sharing a kind review or rating on Apple, Spotify, Amazon or YouTube would be simply terrific. Till next time, I'm Abhay Dandekar

Speaker 1 (39:51)
Thank you.