TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT I'm DOING

Hi. I'm Karan Soni, and I'm an actor, director, writer, producer, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. My name is Abhay Vandekar, and I share conversations with talented and interesting individuals linked to the global Indian and South Asian community. It's informal and informative, adding insights to our evolving cultural expressions, where each person can proudly say, trust me, I know what I'm doing. Hi, everyone.

On this episode of Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing, we share a conversation with actor, producer, and director, Karan Soni. Stay tuned. As always, thank you so much for listening and watching and making Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing part of your day and even a small part of your life. I know it takes time and effort, and so I appreciate you engaging, subscribing, rating, and writing reviews, and sharing this with all your friends and family. You can listen at all the podcast outlets everywhere and watch the episodes on YouTube and follow along on social media.

If you really got something to share, celebrate, or are just feeling emotional, send a message over to info@abhaidandika.com. So recently, I've been thinking a lot about why we are so programmed to seek out people that are endearing. The purely transactional reward aspect must be to activate hope and build human connections for us as social animals. But endearing people are also bringing out the best in us, tugging at our feelings of humanity and empathy, and challenging us to make the world around us shine better and feel more alive. So when I recently had a chance to share a conversation with actor, director, and producer, Garin Soni, it was clear from the moment we started chatting that this sentiment of endearment was at his core and on full display.

Karan is originally from Delhi and moved to LA to go to college and pursue acting. With a knack for comedy and roles that demonstrate range and versatility, he's been a part of television and film projects for several years with many highlights along the way, including appearances on Miracle Workers, Brooklyn Nine Nine, Silicon Valley, and Abbott Elementary for which he's credited with directing a season three episode. He's also lent his voice to several animated projects, including Spider Man Across the Spider Verse and acted in films like Ghostbusters, Office Christmas Party, and Netflix's Always Be My Maybe. And, of course, Karan's timing and chemistry with Ryan Reynolds as Dopinder in the Deadpool film franchise is yet another rung on the ladder of endearment for so many fans. Now he can most recently be seen starring opposite Jonathan Groff in the critically acclaimed romantic comedy, A Nice Indian Boy, which he also executive produced alongside director Roshan Sethi, his partner, by the way, who also happens to be a physician.

So we had a chance to catch up and chat about Guttons' acting journey, lessons along the way, his approach to working on both sides of the camera, and even to our common thread of having significant others who are doctors. But since I'm a stickler for pronunciation, I started off by highlighting the importance of properly introducing Gutterne Sony. Thank you for pronouncing my name with such vigor and accuracy. Yes. You know what?

That's right. Vigor and accuracy are both to be had today. I'm I'm just, excited that we can pronounce both of our names actually with vigor and accuracy, which is great. I have to tell you first off, I I think we both share something in common in that we are both I don't know if we can commiserate or we can celebrate, but we're both spouses of doctors. So, certainly, there's a a lifestyle and a and a secret club unto itself just of being that.

Yes. It's so interesting you said that or start with that because I grew up in India and Delhi, and the profession of doctor, at least from my perspective growing up there, was not as revered as it is in America for Indians. Right. Because we just had, like, a family doctor who we would just go to. He had his own clinic, and it was just very much like that was another job.

And if anything, growing up business and economics, those jobs, like CEOs, were more revered in Yeah. Delhi more than a doctor even. So then when I came to America and every South Asian person, his kid, or parent, is it it was such a fascinating thing to be like, oh, this is what has brought so many people of a certain generation over to America because they were encouraged to come here with that profession. Yeah. And then there's such a respect for it and in a different way.

But since dating my partner who is a doctor, I've been into that world a little bit more. Yeah. And it's a really fascinating world of med school and MCAT scores. And I I was gonna say you're already speaking all the right language words. Right?

Like Yes. I do have a a bone to pick with you, though. I was just telling you that I'm from up here in in Berkeley, and I know you're down in LA. But as a a lifelong LA guy and a Dodger fan, I was dismayed to see you in a Deadpool San Francisco Giants jersey. I I mean, I get the Marvel promotion and all, but come on, man.

That's just wrong. Well, I don't know if this will make you feel better or make everyone hate me. Either way, I didn't even know what the Giants were. That's fair. Because I did not grow up with this sport.

So I just got a email being like, they want you to come to this game, and I have to literally Google, is that football? Is that base? Which one is that? So, yeah, I really don't have strong loyalties with that. But I will say I did one's film at Dodger Stadium.

I we got to film on the field. I did a guest star on this episode of this Fox TV show called Touch that was set in New York. And it was Dodger Stadium, but they were pretending it was Yankee Stadium. And the episode is very dramatic. My character's father has died, and he was a huge Yankees fan.

And I've flown to America, and I'm I wanna pour his ashes onto the stadium grounds. And I break through security and do all this stuff. And to shoot the show shot in LA, so we shot it at Dodger Stadium. So I got to be on the field and spread fake ashes for a few hours, which was very cool. You know, I'm hearing this and, yes, all is forgiven, especially because there's some sort of reverence, at Dodger Stadium that's there.

And I'm so fascinated by your work, and especially your work on screen is is just so endearing and funny and likable, and and I know many have written about lots of other superlatives in there as well. I'm wondering with those that multitude of personas that are there, but particularly those words of being likable and being relatable and and endearing. I'm wondering if there's also a sort of versatility built into that, or if at all there is a craving for roles that speak to a lot of other reactions or emotions from people. You know, for you in in your career, is there is there something there that you feel is beyond just the typecasting or or something that you crave when it comes to your new work now? Yeah.

I feel so lucky because I feel like I've been able to do such a variety of things. It's always interesting, though, when you're doing press or interviews because I think as of today, I think I have a hundred and nine credits or something like that over film and television. And what's interesting is, like, the things that pop are not the ones you have control over, like, certain things people have seen a lot of, and then they think you've only done that. And I'm like, if you if you look at it, to me, I feel very satisfied, I guess, in my career because I've gone to do so many different things. But all of it is interesting to me because I originally, I think, was fascinated and attracted to this profession for two reasons.

One was superficial, which I'm very honest about, which was it seemed like a glamorous life. Yeah. It's not that glamorous in many ways as you come to learn very quickly and brutally in Los Angeles when you're trying to enter this business with no connections and no family members, and you don't look white. So that's another thing. Yeah.

There's that thing. But there was, like, a a draw with that a little bit to it where it felt like this profession where you're accepted publicly. And as someone who grew up in the closet and had all these issues with, like, being accepted in a way, I was drawn to, I think, that part of it. But the other part that I think really hooked me on it when, like, I got bit by the bug as a lot of actors say and you're like, can I have the thing is I usually, in my everyday life, have a hard time expressing my feelings, and I express limited feelings? Like, I don't express anger, jealousy, a lot of these emotions enough.

And so what's great about acting is that you can pretend, but you're still using all your real emotions, but they're in a safe environment almost. It's almost like you're getting angry, but, like, it's safe and allowed and all of those things. So in a way, I feel like I've been able to express every part of myself in different things all the time, which is really, really fun. Overall, I just am currently in a place of just pure gratitude. I feel like I've gone to do so much.

When I initially came out here in 02/2007, the only person I knew on TV was Kalpen. That was the only face that penetrated to India. Harold and Kumar was the only thing. And I remember walking around USC, and there was a poster for Aziz Ansari because he was hosting the MTV Movie Awards. And I just remember stopping and being like, who's this?

Like, I was just shocked. Yeah. And And I think Parks and Rec or something had just come out or something like that. And so, you know, at a time when I arrived, there was no real career prospects or longevity realistically, but I was also 18 years old and not really thinking about the future. I was sort of just like, it'd be cool to be in one thing.

I was like, as far as, like, my brain went. And so in a way, I'm so grateful for that because I think if I was more practical, I would have maybe self sabotaged a little and Right. Removed myself from the game. But I think back now at that time, and I think to now 2025 and this new movie that I've that just came out, and I just think, like, oh my god. Like, I could have never imagined I would have been able to do all this stuff.

And then the likable part is just interesting, but I think with on camera acting, you can only change, I believe, yourself so much. Ultimately, people are falling for your essence because the camera picks up everything. And there's huge exceptions. Like, I would say someone like Daniel Day Lewis or Meryl Streep, the the select few, I would say, not most actors, have this way of manipulating us so much that they can make you believe anything. But I would say majority of actors, the camera, it's the pros and cons of the camera.

It's so intimate that it is actually showing an essence of who you are. But I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it's what makes each actor unique because a part of you is always there whether you're pretending to be someone very different or not. Yeah. And if that's the essence that's coming on, I'm I'm happy about that, but that's totally fine.

It's it. Yeah. And and it's interesting. Right? I mean, like, that versatility that you speak of where you've had all of these things, and yet it does meld back into the essence of who you are, what gets portrayed on the camera.

And you can take bits and pieces away either as an audience member or in real life when you're working with other actors. I imagine that that that presence certainly evokes a lot of feelings of gratitude, but I imagine that there is some liberation with that as well. Like you said, like, you have trouble expressing your feelings perhaps Yes. You know, in person, but then, you know, you're in in this space where now the the camera sort of liberates all of that. And I'm wondering for you, you know, you've been an actor and a producer and a director, and different roles demand different sort of timing and spaces and functionality.

Is there a different kind of liberation that comes from each of those discreetly, or does it still all kind of blend into sort of the professional space of trying to create something? I'm just curious, you know, what differences maybe you felt particularly both in the versatility of all those roles, but then also in the different spaces where you've existed as an actor, producer, or director? Yeah. That's such an interesting question. It I would say I stereotypically am not the actor's personality, which is the stereotype is they're very the emotions are right at the surface and can come out at any time.

Like, actors feel sort of everything. I actually have to actively force them to come out sometimes because my body naturally wants to suppress them. Yeah. And then the other stereotype is that actors aren't good with money or time or organizing, and they're just these creative spirits. And they're it's definitely true for a lot.

I'm not those things. I'm actually so organized. I'm very good with money. I'm like, tax season is, like, good for me. Like, I feel at peace.

Like, I have all my documents always organized. Anytime I go to, like, my tax person, you know, initially You're, like, revved up. Yeah. I'm ready to go. I'm, like, everything is, like, color coded.

And so what's interesting about the other jobs, the behind the camera jobs, is a lot of them are about time management, because everything in film is very expensive. And the more you shoot, you're paying more. So if the day goes longer, it's a hundred plus people over time. It's all these issues. So so much of film and TV is logistics, and the creative part of it is logistics.

Like, we have this location. We have these many hours. We have these many scenes. How are we gonna move past? So that part of it, actually, my brain ignites in a completely different way.

I love using that part of my brain. And it's almost not creative in a way, and I don't mind that. And then the on camera stuff, I actually have to shut the organized part of my brain off and be like, just feel something and just be present. And sometimes I'll because the more I do behind the camera stuff, I start looking at the clock, and I go, oh my god. We're gonna run out of time.

And I almost wanna, like, get in there to the director, and I'm like, it's not my job. It's not your problem. Your problem is just to, like, deliver when the camera is on and do it. So in a way, the acting part is more liberating, and the behind this camera stuff, I feel, almost comes easier because I love the organized part of my brain, and I love schedule and time management and all that stuff. Do you find yourself having to maybe because the behind this camera work is maybe more to your nature and and, you know, it sort of comes as a natural where there's the acting part.

Do you find that you have to actually, like, focus in order to be liberated a little bit more when you're in front of the camera? It's actually the opposite for me, which is because I'm a overthinker and over planner, if I focus, I actually shut myself off. So, you know, weirdly Yeah. Yeah. I have to stop futurizing and thinking about the past and literally look make icon.

It's so basic with the person in front of me and just be like, just be present here. Don't think about the next thing, the future. And that in a way is very relaxing. It's almost like meditation in a weird way. Yeah.

It's like being utterly present. And I feel like when I'm present, everything comes to the surface. But if I'm thinking about, you know, overthinking like I usually am, it's just my brain is shutting down. So in a weird way, when I feel I'm the most present, it's almost like meditation where afterwards, like, a take or something, I feel relaxed, or I feel like the time came and went, and I didn't even realize it. And especially now, we're so addicted to our phones, and I'm I hate I feel so depressed if I look at my phone for long periods of time.

Like, my body just feels bad. With this, like, you can't act with your phone. Like, I put the phone away, and it's just, like, very meditative. It feels very, like, present and good. And so in a way, I'm drawn more to on camera because it makes me feel better.

And Sure. The organized part of me is always working anyway, so I'm just like, in a way, this is the most relaxing. Almost, escaping, a little bit of that and and and getting it out there. Each of your roles in the past, whether it's TV work or, you know, Deadpool and Marvel and the other film work or the voice work, You know, obviously, as you mentioned, right, it's, it's a craft. You have to prepare, requires a lot of prep and and learning.

And then at the same time, when you're in front of the cameras, you you escape a little bit. What do you in fact have to perhaps unlearn maybe as you exit one project and move to the next? As you mentioned, sort of like it you have to certainly, like, prepare in in a way, but what do you also have to let go of? That's a really interesting question. You know, each job, for the most part, ends up teaching you something different, whether that's just reinforcing something that already works for yourself or whether it's, like, a new thing.

So, like, small exam like, people always ask me, like, oh, you worked with, let's say, Ryan Reynolds or something. Like, what did you learn? And oftentimes, it's just basic practical things because I feel like the craft of performing and acting is so personal to each person. Like, someone can be thinking of their dead mother to cry, or someone could be thinking of, like, lunch, and they could cry. You know what I mean?

So it's like, to each person, like, it's so individual. You can't really explain what it is. And so that stuff, you know, you just have to figure out for yourself, like, what gets you to a certain place. But the other stuff is just really practical. So I think a lot of people don't realize I definitely didn't.

In film and television, it's not about the actors, like, comfortability or schedule. So the there's a hundred plus people sometimes to shoot a scene with maybe one or two actors. So there's, you know, all these people setting up lights, setting up the location, doing all this stuff. So the I remember once reading an interview and this actor said, what makes a movie star is basically someone who's ready when the camera is ready to deliver whatever is needed on whatever day. And a lot of people don't realize, like, sometimes you're shooting the final scene of the movie on the first day of the movie.

You know what I mean? And it just is a matter of, like because that worked for the schedule. It doesn't matter that it doesn't work, and you're paid essentially to be ready when they are ready, when the other machine elements are ready or whatever. So there's often, like, things like that of, like, how to practically be on a set. So those are the things I usually take from other people that I've just observed that works for them.

So small thing that I took from Ryan that actually have taken for so many years and it's improved my work so much is I like to improvise a little bit when the project is right and it calls for it. I feel like it gives a more natural performance, and it reads as a more real character if it's something coming out of you live in a weird way. And it ticks my other box of, like, writing where I feel like I'm I'm getting to put something a little bit more in my own words. You know, Ryan is obviously very quick and everything. And I remember on the first Deadpool, my perception of him was that he just kind of is coming up with this magically on the spot.

And that's usually my mindset of improv before going into that first Deadpool movie was that it's only improv if you're just coming up with it in the moment. Otherwise, it's scripted or whatever. And on the first day, I realized on his iPhone notes app, he had written all his all improv lines. He had prewritten everything. And I just remember it blowing my mind, and eventually, I had the courage to ask him about that because he would pull out his phone and the director would be like, do you wanna try anything else?

And he would just rattle off. Yeah. And he's, by the way, one of the fastest, quickest people anyways. But even so, he prepared and wrote some stuff. And I remember at one point, I think I asked him about it, and he said, oh, yeah.

There's no pride in, like, saying you came up with it, like, on the moment. He was like, I have ideas all the time, and I'm gonna forget. The day is long. You maybe had an idea five weeks ago, and you're not shooting the scene for another five weeks, and you're gonna forget. So you might as well have everything on there.

So ever since doing that with him, I started wanna I think I wanna improvise. I'll write I like handwriting in the margins of the script. Sometimes just a word, sometimes a full sentence or dialogue or something. And that was such a small thing, but seeing him do it gave me permission, and now I do it all the time. Yeah.

Yeah. It saved me so many times because, you know, sometimes you're shooting two, three in the morning and you're like, your brain is not as active. But, like, weeks ago when I was rested and well, I had some ideas and I wrote them down. And so then I just look at the script and I go, oh, right. I wanted to try that or I wanted to do something like that.

And so little things like that you take away from different people. You're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. After a quick break, let's come back to our conversation with actor, producer, and director, Garconzoni. Stay tuned. Conversation.

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Welcome back to Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing. Let's rejoin our conversation now with Karan Soni. With that, like, you know, that's a carryover and that you said, like, you you take away from other people. Do you have to also, you know, shed some things when you go from one space to the other and just like, you know, like, hey.

I I know that that worked on that particular project, but, man, this is gonna this is a completely different vibe or a completely different temperature. Make sure that you're you're not anchored, so to speak. Yeah. I think the biggest thing, especially specifically for acting, is very quickly you get on a set and you realize the director is the leader of that particular project, and their style of working is what is gonna be required. And for me now, I've been lucky enough to work so much.

On the first day by lunch, I can tell if I'm gonna have a good time or not. And then it's just a You can feel the vibe of of the whole sort of deal. And, honestly, most actors can we're so sensitive to that where you can and all you're really looking for is basic leadership, which is, does someone know what they want, and are they clear and and decisive with that? And the truth is when they don't know what they want, I have tried to force them into becoming more efficient or better communicators, and I've just now given up and been like, I am not gonna fix this person on this project. So Yeah.

I go into what I call surrender mode, and I just surrender. And I just have to tell myself, it's gonna be really long days. There's gonna be a lot of wastage of time. There's gonna be moments where you will not get clear direction. Just forget that you will get that on this and just get to the end and try to have fun.

And then the opposite, when there's a director who is very decisive and knows what they want, it actually, for me, makes me more creative because we're not rushing. So there's more time to sometimes you wanna try something. There's just, like, a different kind of work dynamic that happens, but it usually all comes from that sort of leader. And it trickles on to every department because the director is in charge of all these other departments, the camera, everything. So if they don't know what they want from the actors, they often don't know what they want from the shots or different things.

And the irony of all of it is it can be a disastrous shoot that can be rescued in the edit. Just because the shoot is going off the rails doesn't mean you might make a bad movie or TV show. So in a way, you'd still have to perform and give it your all because you're like, this might become something. And the opposite is also true, which makes me really sad sometimes, is the happiest sets where everyone was happy, everyone felt creative. It might not come together in the edit room, and it might not be good.

And so Yeah. None of it really matters to what the final thing ends up being. It's more of how do I get through the process of making something. And I can very quickly sort of be like, oh, this one's gonna be one where I just need to surrender, and it's not gonna be smooth. It's gonna be bumpy.

And just put those expectations away and just try to experience it for what it is. Yeah. Just sort of being in that moment. I I'm hearing you say all of this, and it strikes me that you're someone I can sense that really, really has that craving for the structure and the discipline of somebody who's behind that camera and knows what they want so that you can actually create. And yet, I bet that over time, you've had to really flex between what is structure and then what is ambiguity Yes.

In in a project because I'm guessing that that has taken a lot of practice to be able to become comfortable with and, like you said, get to that surrender moment. Probably something that's very different now versus when you were first starting out. Yes. I think when you're first starting out, for me, I can say the that part comes out, I became insecure. So when a director wasn't sure, I took it upon myself, and I was like, I'm bad.

And very quickly you realize, oh, actually, because, like, in the beginning, I think you look at positions of power, like the director on a set, and you think, well, they have the position of power, they must know better. Right. Right. And so in the beginning years, I think you just end up purse I ended up personalizing a lot of that stuff out of insecurity, and I would just take it as, like, oh, they seem unsure because they're not happy with what I'm doing, and that means I'm the problem. And then that's a worse way to be because then you're driving home from a day of work just tortured and not able to sleep.

That luckily has gone away with experience and time. It's also the good lesson in it, which is, again, it might turn out to be a really special project at the end. And in a way, just because everything is controlled and regimented doesn't mean it's gonna be good. So that's the weird thing about creative stuff. There's no formula to it.

If there was a formula, there would be a very, very, very rich people in Hollywood, but much of Hollywood is a huge gamble. You're rolling the dice on a bunch of creative decisions and hoping that you'll make something that people resonate with, and people are paid a lot of money to make those decisions, but people don't really know. They're often guessing what they think is gonna work and not work. And you mentioned all of this, and, you know, it seems like if there's this kind of, like, excitement and anxiety that happens at the exact same time where you're like, this is such a wonderful project. And yet, again, like you said, there's a there's a risk and a gamble that's involved in just about every single project that you might be affiliated with.

I'm wondering, in that same sort of vein, entertainment and acting and create creativity in 02/2025 also presents viewers and the public with a front row seat on so many different platforms and so many different social media venues, and that just sort of goes beyond what they see necessarily on the screen. And yet it's a twenty four hour, seven day, three sixty five process. And it leaves very little time for closed spaces, so to speak. And and so you've been doing this for a while now. Right?

I mean, fifteen years plus. Yes. What has being in this business now for so long taught you maybe about downtime and privacy and, like, closed spaces where it's like, nope. I don't need to know about, the process, and I don't want to constantly be part of that. Yeah.

That's such an interesting question. Yeah. The downtime is a big thing because the other problem with this profession is you never really know your schedule or what's gonna be happening. Yeah. And so you can go from, quote, unquote, not working to then working a sixteen hour day the next day.

Like, there's just no structure in that sense. So the downtime originally used to be this very dreaded thing. And now I've I can't say I'm completely cured of the dread, but I've refocused it in a way where I just have accepted that I work in a profession that's all extremes. When you're not working, you feel like you have too much time. When you're working, you're working sixteen, seventeen hour days.

You have no life outside work, and so you're always at two extremes. So in a way, the downtime I've tried to rephrase it as literally just telling yourself, there's gonna come a Monday where I'm gonna look at the schedule and be like, I don't have a second to breathe this week, and I wish I would have had this day off. Yeah. But I have the day off today. And in a way, I think the creative thing is so interesting because you have to recharge and refuel yourself in the downtime in order to then work the long days and be present and be ready and be willing for whatever is thrown at you.

In a way, the preparation for that happens when you're not working for myself. Mhmm. And so I look at that time as, like, a time to just kinda refill the cup. And then the other thing that is interesting that happens in that time is for me, draw a lot from different things, from things I've seen. Like, I'm very observational, so I'll even see, like, a parent talk to a child or something, and it'll just clock in my head somewhere as, like, oh, that was interesting.

Social interaction, there's something there that I would like to recreate one day if it's right or something. And that is only happening when you have time to live life and do all of that stuff. And then the private and quiet space is also very important because, I feel like you end up expelling energy while working a lot. And people it's very social environment. People wanna talk a lot.

And the other crew members, interestingly, they are able to do their job quietly, technically, because we're recording sound. They're not supposed to be social. They're sort of very focused. And then in between takes, they're more socializing. In a weird way, we have to expel our energy when everyone else is quiet because that's when we're doing the performing.

So depending on what kind of if it's a lighter movie or something, then I'm okay. Being social actually helps me to be lighter and, like, more kind of interacting. And then sometimes I just did a movie last year where I played a serial killer, and I was doing some very intense scenes and killing people into a lot of heavy emotions. And I would just I bring a book, and I just open the book, and I just read. And I think it just lets people know, like, I'm not interested in talking, but hopefully not in a rude way.

And, also, I looking at the phone always makes me feel bad. So reading, like, a physical book, I find, is, like, my best way of being, like it just signals to everyone in a kind way. I'm not interested right now in talking, and I'm also, like, just calming myself down by reading. And Would it if if we both took books right now and and started reading papers to each other, would that signal some sort of kind and polite way that we needed to pause for a second? Slowly just bring the book up and cover the camera.

There you go. Alright. You know, a lot of this is something that we grow into. Right? We learn.

We we find ways to adapt, and and therefore, we become more comfortable in our own skin. And and certainly, that takes time. But, you know, you're someone who grew up in India, and we were just chatting, you know, before we started about, like, how you've probably been here now in The States about the equivalent amount of time. And, you know, in growing up in Delhi and then coming to LA and being at USC and is there an element of India and your childhood or the way you grew up, even the the the components of growing up, are there elements of that that you consistently get very nostalgic about? Yeah.

It's interesting. I don't have that much nostalgia for it. I mostly feel just grateful because I feel like I left at the age of 18. I had such a strong sense of Indian culture, at least where I grew up in Delhi and everything, and what parts of it I really liked and then what parts of it I didn't like. And Mhmm.

America, I feel like, is such a place to reinvent yourself in many ways Yeah. And, sort of start again the way you want to. And so I feel so lucky because the parts I didn't like, I was able to just reshape and live a a more American life. What I noticed when I first came to school here was the Indian American experience, so many Indian American students. And, understandably, they felt so lost.

They had one foot in the Indian culture, which to me felt so obscure because it's something they had gone from their parents who left at a different age. The music they listened to was so old to me, or the the dishes specifically they talked about, or I was like, that's not like and and there was such a confusion with, like, what they lash on and then how American they should be and and that classic kind of battle of, like, where you stand. Yeah. And just kind of lost an identity. And then also depending on what part of America they grew up in, you know, how racist it was and what part of the Indian culture they suppressed because they were like, it's a survival technique.

So Mhmm. To me, I came to Los Angeles, a multicultural place where that didn't necessarily happen. There was more curiosity about my race than, you know, discrimination. And so I feel so lucky because I just was like, oh, wow. I have these parts of myself that I like from this culture that's so rich and amazing, and then I have other parts that I can reinvent in this country, which is so cool, including this specific career, like, you know, having this particular career and all of that kind of stuff.

So I feel really lucky. What ended up happening for me was honestly not nostalgia in the beginning, but my obsession when I first came to LA was I only wanted to make white friends. I was like, get me away from the people that because I really was like, I'm having this experience. I'm leaving this country. Like, I I'm obsessed with just whiteness.

Yeah. And it was such a testament to because I was a big fan of movies. And so what I saw in movies was white people. And so I just I remember coming to Downtown LA, and I was shocked to see signs in Spanish. And around USC at the time in 02/2007, not as gentrified as it is today.

The grocery stores sometimes had signs in Spanish. And I just remember being like, what the hell is this? And I just was and it was so interesting because they exist. And even if movies were filmed in those locations, you only saw white characters. So Yeah.

Yeah. It was such a jarring shock to be like, oh, there's so much diversity in Los Angeles. Like, I had no idea there's more Mexican food here than American food. I remember initially coming to USC and being like, I wanna hide all the Indian stuff, and I just wanna make white friends and be as American, quote, unquote, as possible. And then I also played into this idea of if white people found any part of my culture exotic, I would play that up in order to be interesting to them.

And Yeah. I didn't really know what part of the culture at that point. I still enjoyed for myself. I just remember if they found it interesting, I would bring it up. And if they didn't, then I would be like, yeah.

It's not that interesting. And it was all dependent on them. And then as I went further into Hollywood and stuff, I think that problem got worse because at the time when I started, there was major scarcity mentality amongst people of color. Because the truth was, you were often always meeting other brown actors in an audition room, and you were all competing for the same small part. And so there was this constant sense, oh my god.

This person is here. And looking at the other person from your own race as competition always is not a good feeling. Right. And so there was no sense of, like, I'm interested in their experience or any of that. And then, luckily, I came into this business at a time when it's opening up a little bit more and there's better opportunities.

And suddenly, I remember having the experience of working with another brown actor in the same scene, and it sounds so small, but it goes from seeing someone who looks like you as competition to a coworker. And it's a completely different paradigm change, and I remember feeling so comfortable on the set being like, oh, I don't have to play this game of, like, what the white people like about Indian culture. We're just naturally connecting about what we like about that stuff. And it that then allowed me to sort of be like, okay. What do I really like?

And what do I miss? And what do I not miss? And now I feel like I have a very healthy kind of sense of that. Mhmm. But I don't miss living back there or living in India or any of that stuff.

I actually feel like I found the perfect balance here, where I feel like I have my right independence and I have the parts of the culture that I love with me still. Yeah. And, you know, when you mention, look, I I really just wanna be with white people. Yes. And then you get this sort of jarring reality of what Los Angeles and the experience is like and how diverse it is.

And and yet when you now are in a business where there is some labeling Yes. Of what is it that you do and who you are, those tags of being an Indian American or an Indian or a South Asian American, do those labels make sense to you? Do they make you proud, or do do they make you indifferent? Are they are they just extras out there? And especially nowadays where it's not that you're shoving people away from that single seat at the table.

Mhmm. Are those labels necessary Mhmm. As the sort of industry goes forward? And there's there's more of us who are making it to positions of power and places where we can actually hold those levers of power and finance. Do those labels matter in the same way anymore, or do they maybe matter more?

I think they matter in Hollywood. I think it depends industry to industry. I I think to me, and this I can just speak to my Hollywood experience. Most of Hollywood is still run by white people. And so I think where the labels are helpful is there's organizations and stuff and places for groups to gather.

And the hope is that in that, you will uplift each other, and that's the best case scenario with those things. And Zarna, for example, who we're in this new movie together, a nice Indian boy, we met because of a South Asians in Hollywood event. We just happened to be in the same room. We started talking. We exchanged numbers, and we didn't end up working together till two years later on this movie.

But that one small connection happened because we were in that room because these people organized this our organization called the salon organized that. So I think little things like that, we do need to help. And what's interesting is I feel like in a majority industry that's not diverse in the people of power, that kind of socializing is happening in the office halls, in the agency halls. It's It's just happening because people are going to each other's Thanksgiving, and there's just so much mobility and so many deals and stuff are made in these exclusive venues that you aren't invited to. So even though they're not calling it organizing for white people, there is a natural social hierarchy that's happening.

People are Yeah. Rubbing shoulders at big premieres because they're invited to you know what I mean? So I think that stuff is weirdly powerful, and a lot of decisions are made in those settings. And so in a way, I'm all for minority groups organizing those organizations because we have to do it for ourselves because we're too disparate in many ways. But I do think in our industry, it is helpful still to do that.

I think where it can be really tricky is, and this happened a lot in the last few years, is there's this feeling of, like, oh, the door is a little bit open, so we wanna make stuff for ourselves. And what ends up sometimes happening is we make stuff that's so centered in our identity that it actually isn't entertaining. It feels a little bit more like we're trying to, like, be righteous. And what happens is that's great for people within your community to watch, but I think, ultimately, what really breaks through is when people watch something that's not about people that look like them. As Indian person in India watching Hollywood movies, I did that all the time.

I only watched white people, and I fell into their worlds, and I found them. And that's why I had such reverence for them when I came out to, you know what I mean, to to America. And I think that's the power of movies is, like, it can humanize things that you actually went into not knowing much about a different person's perspective, and it shows you how many things we have in common and how many we have different. And it just it just helps with all of that so much. And so I think in order to do that, you have to make something really entertaining, and you have to think about all audiences, not just South Asian people will really get this joke or they'll love this thing.

And I think it's great, and it makes sense in the beginning of any movement to focus a lot on the of that because it's like, can you believe in a movie we're getting to say this or show this or whatever? But I think, ultimately, for those projects to really pop off in a way and have an impact, they have to ultimately be entertaining to everyone. And I think now we're beginning to do that a little bit more. Mhmm. There was, like, this study on how will and grace is the reason why gay marriage was legalized in America Years later because over eight, nine seasons of that show, it normalized same sex relationships to it became a not as political issue.

And that, to me, is, like, so interesting. But I never watched Will and Grace as homework, as, like, this is important television. I watched it because it made me laugh, and it was very funny. Yeah. And I think that's the ultimate thing.

People are wanting to watch film and TV as or I am to be entertained. Wanna watch a documentary to learn something. And so I think that's the only issue that I've noticed with this these groups coming together and the labels is that there's this feeling of, like, we need to make stuff for ourselves, and and that's good too. But if it doesn't do well and doesn't succeed or cross over the aisle to other people watching it, then in a way, you're just creating it in this very small vacuum, and it's maybe not having the desired effect. I love that it shouldn't ever be homework.

In the end, if it's if it's entertainment, then, you know, that's probably the most critical thing. You're listening to Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing. After a quick break, let's come back to our conversation with Karan Soni. Stay tuned.

Every story told is a lesson learned, and every lesson learned is a story waiting to be told. I'm Abhay Dandekar, and I share conversations with global Indians and South Asians so everyone can say, trust me, I know what I'm doing. New episodes weekly wherever you listen to your podcasts. Hi. I'm Krish Ashok, author of Masala Lab, The Science of Indian Cooking, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing.

Hi. This is Madhur Dixit. Hi. This is Farhan Akhtar. Hi.

This is Vidya Balan, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Hi there. I'm Abhay Dandekar, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Let's rejoin our conversation now with actor, director, and producer, Karan Soni. And speaking of the entertainment part, I mean, I think your your movie, A Nice Indian Boy, definitely sort of speaks to that.

Right? That there's a Yeah. We really tried to do that. Yeah. Yeah.

And I was reading a New York Times review where they were sharing that your character, Naveen, in a nice Indian boy, sort of emerges he he emerges as a quiet but powerful authority on true love. Mhmm. And I think what struck me about that one about that just that statement and in thinking about the the role is I'm curious how you felt that this film empowered you. I mean, did did you feel that there was a sense of empowerment for you both personally and professionally at this stage in your career and at this stage in your life? Was there a sort of a a sense of empowerment that spoke to you, especially after leaving that project?

Yeah. A %. It it felt like almost too good to be true, one of those projects where Yeah. It had so much. I got to, with my partner, Rashaan, work on the script and write some of this, rewrite some of what was originally there.

The original screenplays by Eric Randall, but we got to make it personal to our ourselves a little bit too. So we both poured so much of ourselves into the movie. But, essentially, the movie to me was always, like, I wish when we were making it, I was like, what I wanna make is something that I wish I had when I was 19 years old to show my parents. That's the age I came out to them because I think it would have made the whole thing go much better than it did. Right.

And I think what's so interesting, and Rashaan says this, and he originally said it, and it's really stuck with me, is that so much of queer cinema, film, and TV is about trauma. And I think a lot is true for African American films and TV too. So much of it is about the original sin, the trauma that you wanna see people on those groups just live their life and have fun and be happy and have a happy ending as well. Yeah. You don't wanna just see that.

And so I think when my parents originally told them, they just wanted the images and things that they were seeing, which was AIDS, which was loneliness. And this movie is a celebration. It's not all of that. It's like, what if everything did work out and you had the big happy ending at the end? And that felt like making something really kind of special and unique.

And then also on a separate note, professionally, you know, at a certain point working all these years, this becomes like any other job, which is that, you know, there's one thing which is the result of your work, but the majority of the experience is what is the day to day of my job like? Did I enjoy work today? Who cares what the final movie of people enjoy? Because that's not in your control. So it really becomes about the day to day grind of, like, was I happy today?

Did I, like, have a great day at work? And the things that excite me now as much as it's the character and the work is also the idea of, like, sometimes getting the chance to be in the leadership position. So on this movie, it's called first on the call sheet, but you're basically the actor who's in every day and doing everything. And I don't wanna do that all the time. It's a lot of work.

But on the projects where it feels really right, it's that feeling of, like, I've seen sets be run poorly and well, and I want to do it in a way where I can have a good time. Everyone can be happy. Like, I really care about that environment because I think it brings out the best in everyone. And once in a while, I like the challenge of being like, okay. I'm gonna be in every day.

I wanna set a certain tone. I want that. And so this project gave a lot of that as well. Like, there was I had to pour every part of myself into it, physically, emotionally, everything. So that stuff feels very, very satisfying.

And then the other thing that didn't dawn on me until after we finished was when when I first started in Hollywood, I think someone was trying to be well meaning, but it came off maybe not as well meaning. But they said to me, you have two strikes against you. And I was like, what do you mean? And they were like, well, you're Indian and you're gay. You can't have two things against you.

And so then I was like, well, I can't change the way my I look, so I guess I'll just bury the gay part of me, and I'll just, like, lean into the Indian part. And then Yeah. Depending on different jobs, what they require, I'll bring one of the other parts in more or less. But this job specifically required both those parts of myself to be present at all times. Mhmm.

And I didn't have to suppress or hide any of it. Both actually added every day to the scene to whatever we were doing. Both were valid, and that was a very liberating and free experience to be like, oh my god. Everything that's coming out of me is useful and helpful for this particular project. It's all good.

What was something new that maybe you learned about Roshan from working on this project. Yeah. Yeah. That was ex this was also so special working with him on this because he came out later in life in his thirties. And in many ways, the story was more raw for him because of the same things I went through when I was 19, which is just, I would say, the fear of the parents of, like, their pure fear of, like, what they think your life is gonna look like and them having to readjust their expectations.

It was so much more raw for him because it was only four or five years prior to us filming a lot of these scenes. And so I think for him, it was more just it was very healing, I think, to see him kind of process a lot of that stuff and and go through a lot of that stuff. And in a way, I think, like, I had so much more distance from it, from a lot of those feelings, but I was just, again, just proud of him and admired that he was tackling a lot of those things that were still quite raw. And then the other thing that's really interesting is he knows me so well. So he, in a way, knows when I'm maybe overacting or not being real as much, and he's very blunt, which I like.

So he'll sort of just be like, that didn't feel real. And then I'll just be like, right. Right. Right. Because you know me so well.

And so Yeah. In a way, I was proud of my performance too because I think he kept me honest in moments where I was maybe veering into, like, more kind of, like, you know, acting with a capital a or whatever. And for me also, this was a hard role because the character is very internal, and he doesn't express his feelings till the very end. And that's a big struggle in the movie. And so a lot of it is, like, said through the eyes, and that's a joy for an actor on film to get to sort of play with.

But it did make me feel very insecure while filming a lot of it because many days, I would leave and be like, did I do anything today? Right. Right. Like, nothing happened. But he's very he will not move on until he's gotten what he wants, and he's very confident.

So him constantly being like, we got it. If it was in director I hadn't worked with, I think it would have been a more torturous experience on this movie because I've been like, do I trust their taste? Did they really get it? And so there was a lot going on with this movie. And that and that sounds very helpful to sort of level set with you and really counterbalance how you feel at the end of the day with someone who they know you really well, and they can actually do the the little bit more of the reassurance that that things are moving in the right direction or not.

And I guess as a unexpected surprise as you finished this project and have moved on to others and more that are coming down the pipeline for you, you know, was this additive in that way so that, like, now the the future roles that you're on, again, you're sort of taking this away and finding that this success actually is only additive to to the next projects. And with that that in mind that, like, each project is that gamble and and you take some risk. Totally. Yeah. This one felt like I think not every job feels like this, but certain jobs, you feel like you took one level up.

Like, you've gone you found a new kind of place to be at, and this one luckily did feel like that. Yeah. It's interesting because as a person of color in Hollywood, you often get cast in the character parts, which I love Yeah. Which are often, like, showier, louder. The characters are saying what they're feeling.

They're kind of like the best friend or whatever, which they're so fun to play. Yeah. But there's not maybe as much always or you have to find that a little bit more. But, usually, the lead sort of parts, the struggle, and there's more to kind of play off of the backstory and stuff. And in this one particular, the character not speaking as much, but, like, conveying everything was something I hadn't really done in a movie.

And so doing it and trying it and being like, I don't know if it's gonna work or if I'll be good at this. And then seeing it and being like, oh, I think I did do a good job with this gave me this feeling of, like, oh, I think I've I'm ready to do that. And what's interesting about playing this part is that I wouldn't have been able to do it the same way even two years ago or three years ago. Yeah. I think so much of it comes from confidence and trusting that the camera will pick up what you feel and actually confidence and stillness and being quiet.

And I think it's so true for, like, leaders and other people. They often don't speak a lot. They are always listening or absorbing. And when they do, it feels interesting and you're leaning in. It required a little bit of that.

It required everyone else in a weird way on the day to shine around me and get the laughs and get the things and know that I'm being honest and true to this character, which is that you will hopefully see a version of yourself in this person who is, like, very shy, very quiet. And by the end, when he isn't that way, you get the payoff of, like, oh my god. He's really come and gone on this journey. But it requires a certain level of confidence on the day to not be like, I wanna improvise and I wanna goof off and I wanna have fun. I wanna do all this.

And in a way, it's like you're trying not to betray yourself for that little pleasure in that moment, for the big reward at the end, which is to have hopefully created a character where he's gone on this bigger journey. And Yeah. I think pulling that off, I didn't know honestly if I had. Even though Rajan was saying he was happy with the pieces, I was like, I don't know. And after seeing it, I was like, okay.

I know that I can do this now, and, like, I've developed that. And so it's given me a little bit, Duffy, more confidence in other stuff moving forward. I've talked to others where these kinds of projects, they seem to serve sort of a dual role as being an anchor for having that foundation of something you can do and also a buoy. Right? That it Yeah.

It sort of lifts you up and and now gives you great optimism for the future. And let me get you out of here on this. Yes. You know, I know that people are are learning more about you and certainly getting to revisit your work in in some ways as well. But for those who might be catching your work for the very first time, or even meeting you for the first time, what do you hope they are taking away from those sort of first experiences?

That's so interesting. Well, my number one thing that comes to mind is I hope they laugh because I've done been on a lot of comedies. And the other thing, I guess, I would say is I depending on who they are, like, I hope they what we were saying earlier, which, like, if they haven't seen an Indian person in film or TV or something, I hope they're getting, like, a version of it where they feel like, oh, I like that guy. Like, in a way, just as small as that seems where you go, like it's the will and grace thing of, like, normalizing maybe a certain thing that you've seen. Like, to me, that was the magic of honestly being part of the Marvel world with Spider Man and Deadpool was that so many non Indian people watch that in parts of America where they may not have even interacted with the Indian person.

And they're like, hey. I like you, and they would high five me or something. And I'd be like, this is just a quiet thing that's happening where it's it's like putting out a good version of something. I'm I'm really in this mindset where I I wanna put out things that make people feel kind and better about the world. Yeah.

Even the serial killer movie or whatever that I did, at the core of it, the character's so deeply sad and broken. He's not evil, and that's something that was very important to me. I'm like, he's doing really bad things, but deep down, he's just like a broken person who takes it too far, but you hopefully feel bad for him even at the end. I feel like we're in such a time where there's just a lack of kindness and a quick judgment of things, but I feel like I am not interested in fueling that fire more. Mhmm.

I want to make people feel, like, good and better and lean to that other part of ourselves. And so that's the other thing, I guess, I would say. Well, making people feel good and better. And I know lots and lots of of folks who are are seeing your work feeling very much better for it and and hopefully thinking to themselves like, hey. That that's a good guy there.

Yeah. Karan, thank you so much for for joining. This was really a treat, and and I hope we can visit with you again down the road. Of course. You have a very calming presence.

I appreciate that. Yeah. I would happily share my blood work with you. There you go. Right?

It's all about the blood work. One of the first things, Rasha, on I think one of our early dates, he was like, I would like to see your lipid panel. And he did. He got in there. And he liked some stuff, and he did not like some stuff.

And, we've gotten the numbers good now, but it was a very, very jarring experience for me. My god. Like, this is very vulnerable to show you these numbers right now. Well, this this was great. Really appreciate the time.

And, again, thanks so much. Thank you so much. Yeah. You can catch A Nice Indian Boy in theaters and online. But if you're having fun watching or listening, subscribe, write a kind review, and pass it along to your friends and family.

And remember, conversation is truly the antidote for apathy. Till next time. I'm Abhay Dandekar.