TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT I'm DOING

Hello, everybody. This is Vani Kola, founder and managing director of Kalaari Capital. Kalaari Capital is a early stage venture capital firm that I founded based in Bangalore, India. And you're listening to Trust Me, I know what I'm doing. Yeah.

My name is Abhay Dandekar, and I share conversations with talented and interesting individuals linked to the global Indian and South Asian community. It's informal and informative, adding insights to our evolving cultural expressions, where each person can proudly say, trust me, I know what I'm doing. Hi, everyone. On this episode of Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing, we share a conversation with venture capitalist, Vani Kola. Stay tuned.

As always, thank you for listening, watching, and subscribing, and sharing. Trust me. I know what I'm doing with all your friends and family. I'm truly very grateful. So I'm always eager to learn from leaders who more often than not are able to manage contrasts.

Now contrast comes in all different shapes and forms, and they are literally all around us in every professional and personal environment. And my hypothesis is that successful leaders find a way, maybe through their own journey, to manage small and large contrast with progressively increasing clarity, patience, and purpose. So it was really a treat to share a conversation with Varni Kola, the founder and managing director of Kalaari Capital, an early stage venture capital firm in India. Vani is originally from Hyderabad, and after an engineering degree, came to The US to complete her master's and went on to a career as a serial entrepreneur in Silicon Valley for over two decades. She then returned to India to pioneer among the first homegrown Indian seed stage venture firms with Kalaari Capital, using a philosophy that includes recognizing ambitious first time entrepreneurs and helping them to scale up.

Now mind you, she started this at a time in the mid two thousands when opportunities for growth and scale for e commerce, tech, health care, and many other sectors in India were at the ripening stage. Vani has navigated and executed successfully through the endless contrast of an evolving seed stage venture ecosystem, new versus old, disruptive revolutions versus steady institutions, profiteering innovation versus collective responsibility, and skepticism versus trust. They're at the core of the face to face conversations that investors and entrepreneurs are having every single day. Vani has been mentoring and developing some of India's top founders and unicorn companies with not just a keen eye on returns, but on the responsibility too to accelerate women as leaders in entrepreneurship, doing it all with a meditative sense of purpose and a growth mindset of sharing. By the way, you really have to check out her great newsletter called Kolaidoscope on LinkedIn.

Now I had met her briefly once when she spoke at a panel discussion on tech and India's future, and it was so great to catch up with her again to talk about everything from ambiguity and nostalgia to policy making and the guardrails of tech and even what she misses about Silicon Valley. But we started by chatting about the basics of daily skills and anchors, and especially if she had any self driving or governing rituals and things. Ebb and flow. And, I am 61 this year, so I'm all about routines and rituals. Okay.

So my mornings for many decades now starts with a meditation and maybe a small or big chunk of time. Small being maybe fifteen to twenty minutes. Big chunk could be forty five to an hour of some form of exercise. But talking about ebb and flow, for the last three months or so. I've had an issue that I've been struggling with.

So my mornings have started with physiotherapy every single day. That has made it so much more better, and I think as ludicrous as it might sound, at 61, I know my body and, you know, names of muscles I didn't know existed. Right. Exactly. Right?

So I think while it's good to have routines and rituals, life also changes, and you have to change with that. So now I've been doing my physio first and my meditation next and then getting ready to go to work. So that has been my routine most days in the morning. And my evenings, you know, is usually like I'm doing right now, talking to you, having my herbal tea, and then, getting off screen around 10:00, ten thirty, reading a book, getting to bed. You know, those those routines, like you mentioned, the ebb and flow.

Is it important for you to have a routine to ensure that there's some anchors in your day, especially to feel as if there is some purpose and meaning regardless of the, quote, unquote, productivity part? Yeah. I mean, my kids are now grown and, live on their own, obviously. But I remember every single day dropping them to the bus stop to take their school bus. We live in India, so there are school buses.

And, to, was a ritual that was between 7AM and 07:15. So then the morning routine had to be slightly different. Right? So breakfast for the kids Right. You know, getting them to the bus stop and then me heading off to work.

So my morning started much earlier because I needed to get my exercise and my meditation done before the kids got up. So I was, like, a 05:30AM, five AM person to just make it all work. So I think your life stages change. Routines are very important, but not feeling resentful about your routines versus the routines actually empowering you, I think, and giving you meaning is important, which means, you know, you have to find some flexibility and grace for yourself and, you know, make it joyful, the routines versus something that start your morning as burdensome or resentful. Sure.

And I and I think you're right that unburdening that comes from the routine is only as good as how much grace you allow yourself for those ebbs and flows. You know you know, Kobe Bryant, the famous basketball player, the late famous basketball player Yes. He once commented that he never ever got bored with the basics. And, you know, I that always struck me, especially in thinking about those routines that just seem so you know, again, routine, and they're basic, and they they tend to anchor us a little bit. I'm curious what basic skills or values particularly serve as those anchors in a day to day problem solving universe that could really have so many surprises embedded in there.

Are there particular basic things that you, just like like Kobe, never get truly bored of? Well, you know, like I said, I never get bored of my meditation because it allows me to have a centered perspective, good day, bad day, grateful for the good day. And if you feel you had a bad day to know that there is gonna be a better day and just to not let anything get to you too seriously. Right? And, I think that centeredness of, being more even keen, I think, and also just that pause before you react to Yeah.

Something and embedding that into life. I think we are quick to react, and the impact of that can be small or big depending on, how often and in what virtuosity, you know, we bring that into our life. So, you know, and the basics to me are really having dinner with the family, almost every day. Right? And, without distractions, without TV.

We've never had TV in our dining room. So I think just to me, I think being present. I think that is the basic, being present to whatever I'm doing to be just mindful of how I am taking in my day. Yeah. You know, that's important to me.

That's the basic. You know, for someone who's a athlete, right, they they practice this quite a bit. They they spend time perfecting a jump shot or a dribble in in in the basketball world. As a leader in the venture capital and tech world and as someone who's who leads teams, did did that ability to stay engaged and present in the moment, did that does that take practice? Do you have to remind yourself of that on a daily basis?

Are there are there methods that you use, particularly at work, that are are, you know, recentering or or repurposing yourself so that you're reminded of that that sort of central value of staying present in the moment? You know, I'm somebody who nature nurture, at some point, it's very hard to draw a line because something becomes second nature somewhere and, you know, you see a gymnast with a big leap and it looks so easy or whatever, right, that may be, and that comes from years of practice and skills. So I think some point, things become your nature, and maybe at some point, they were nurtured perhaps. Right? Some of it you nurture consciously.

Some of it, perhaps, you don't nurture so consciously. Like, family dinners was not something I nurtured consciously because it was what I grew up with, what I really cherished, and Yeah. It was just a tradition that came easy. We didn't have to work hard as a family to do that. Maybe for someone else that has to be nurtured and maybe over time it becomes nature.

But but to me, I'm a fairly organized person. I can, of course, be flexible because the day may demand that at times, but I calendar my week. I calendar my day, you know, my to dos. If I'm gonna take a break to exercise or meet a friend for coffee, I calendar that. If I'm gonna go to a movie, I calendar that.

So I kind of tend to be a planned person. Now, again, it works for my profession and for my career and my personal time that I also cherish better to be very, very calendared. Maybe it doesn't work for an artist. Maybe they need to be inspired by the moment. I don't know.

Right, since I I am not one. But but the calendaring, though, is, you know, the process I use, it has three buckets. I know I couldn't plan for this, but it needs my time now. Now may not be this minute, maybe today or this week, but it wasn't already planned, so I have to make room for that. But I might have a talk I have to give a month from now, and it could be a talk I'm very familiar with.

Then I know I don't have to spend a lot of time preparing, so I just maybe schedule half an hour somewhere to prepare that. But it may be on a completely new topic, and then I calendar myself the research time, the preparation time, all of that. Right? Yeah. And, the same thing, there may be trip coming up.

Maybe I need only little time to pack, or it's the kind of trip that I need more time to pack. It goes into the calendar. Okay? That's yeah. So so you know?

And same thing goes for reading time. I have a meeting coming up. I'm meeting a founder. They are building something in the space economy. They've sent me some material reading that, being prepared before going into the, meeting.

Right? So, I have that meeting tomorrow. So, you know, so I look at my work, and I tend to maybe not get as flustered because I try to land everything as much as possible in a way that I'm prepared. And Yeah. In some ways, even curiosity and boredom gets calendered, as in I put down blank times that may be my time that I write blog because I can't say I'll write this article in the next thirty minutes.

It at least I don't work that way. Maybe writers can do that. So I just say, oh, I need three hours of writing time. So let's see what I can come up with. So it is unstructured, but structured into allowing me that time.

Right? And but I just tend to be someone who works well, and I think this is over time that I've gotten to a point where I like to be very organized about my work. Yeah. Yeah. I I love that, you know, that calendaring actually serves again no matter what, whether it's having some flexibility with some free space, in there, but it's built into there.

So it allows some architecture for how you can think, as well. And and it sounds like particularly with that utilizing a practice, for this, and it gets better, over time or it even changes over time. If that's the anchor, I'm curious if that's the thing that grounds, your day, grounds your work, grounds your your system, if you will. I'm curious about, sometimes the buoys. Right?

Those things that actually, help you float in a very nimble way with the ability to then calibrate and flex up and down or even lead, therefore, with empathy. Because, again, you can't necessarily always stick to the calendar. Are there are there some ways that you even whether it's managing your time or even managing processes or people, are there some things that serve as buoys for that that you are reminder reminding yourself of the nature of that flexibility and sometimes, the fact that things always don't go the way that you want to? Yeah. We are living in India and not in Switzerland, so things don't work on time.

So Yeah. Now, you know, you allow for some buffers. So right? So you kind of allow for some buffers, whether that is traffic or this or that or, whatever. Right?

If I'm flying, I would rather get to the airport and make those impromptu calls or read up what I need to read up, but allow for the flexibility so I'm not rushed. And, I read of a recent TikTok trend that is about how little time you need to spend in the airport or whatever. That would never be me. Right? So I Right.

Like to plan buffers. Right? Yeah. So that helps, always. Right?

And, so it's not that you calendar yourself by the minute, but you have to provide buffers. And sometimes despite everything, you or others can't always make things work. And you look at whether that's chronic and whether that's something that's genuine, in which case, of course, the empathy and, you know, you can always find flexibility. Yeah. You you can never be a slave of any routine or any ritual.

They are just kind of like a, you know, lane. Right? You're driving. There is a lane. But there is a construction obstruction, so you have to sort of you know, both sides of the traffic have to use the same lane, and you may accommodate for that.

So, you know, you also have to have the like, we already use the word giving yourself grace and some humor. I think humor helps a lot. And, you know, if you live in India, so many things go as not so planned, not not as you plan, then you need to have a little bit of a dark humor to allow for, you know, those to not rattle you so much. Do do I wonder if connecting with whether it's investors or other business leaders, particularly about that dark humor, Does do those connections sometimes, you know, help in some ways for landing on a particular meeting spot and finding common ground and and even in in some ways that empathy that goes into negotiating to a middle somehow. Has that been something that you found to be very helpful, especially when developing relationships?

I think when developing relationships, to me, it's about authenticity. Right? Somehow, we are all wired to spot something that isn't genuine quite easily. There is something about body language and body chemistry, and I know there's a lot of research on this. And the only person usually who's fooling themselves is probably the person who isn't aware Yeah.

That they are not truly bringing their authentic self. Right? Mhmm. I think in building relationships, whether you're negotiating or whether you're trying to find that common ground, it's really when I say authentic self, it's a combination of having the courage to just own own it up. And the communication on how do you tune in to the other person and how do you share this in a way that they have ability to also receive it.

Right? So there is both the there is both expressing and there is receiving. So, again, for me as a receiver, let's say you showed up an hour late and I'm sitting here Yeah. But pausing just to hear you out, right, and make the best of that situation in that moment is all that, you know, you can do. But that pause becomes important, and pause can be cultivated.

Pause can become your second nature. But so many times, just that pause to genuinely hear the person has saved me in a manner of speaking, saved me from doing or saying something that I would have regretted. That's what I mean. Right? Yeah.

But, likewise, to communicate, I think, is also important. And all of us almost always tend to not take responsibility. And oftentimes, it's just that communication of what you want to share with the other person. There is a combination of being genuine, but also being mindful about what you're saying and and and the tonality and, you know, how you are saying it that makes a situation manageable or toxic. You know, that that spirit of authenticity and understanding the genuine nature of someone by, in fact, leading with empathy and having that pause, I think they all flow into each other.

You're listening to Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing. After a quick break, let's come back to our conversation with Vani Kola. Stay tuned. Every story told is a lesson learned, and every lesson learned is a story waiting to be told.

I'm Abhay Dandekar, and I share conversations with global Indians and South Asians so everyone can say, trust me, I know what I'm doing. New episodes weekly wherever you listen to your podcast. Hi. I'm Krish Ashok, author of Masala Lab, the science of Indian cooking, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Hi.

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I Know What I'm Doing. Let's rejoin our conversation now with venture capitalist, Barney Kola. I I'm curious about one particular aspect of the nature of some of the people that you you certainly interact with, and that is thinking about ambiguity when when particularly startup entrepreneurs have you know, they have to have enough passion and resolve to take a problem solving vision and manage through many, many ambiguous steps. But for you as a funder and and someone who often holds some of those levers of of capital and power in a way, how do you deal with ambiguity now versus much earlier in your career? You know, ambiguity is a part of business.

It doesn't actually matter whether it's a start up or a large company. Let's say you are running a large company today, health care company since you're a pediatrician. You don't know how, let's say, the onset of AI might change medicine. Let's just take that. And if you are a hospital administrator, you probably need to think about it.

Sure. Right. If I You know, and robotic surgery or whatever it is. Right? So there are a lot of things always changing.

Maybe in some industries, not as fast. In other industries, fast. So there is ambiguity to the very nature of life and ambiguity to the very nature of business. Right? Yeah.

There is Andy Growe, one of my favorite leaders now, of course, passed away. His book, the, paranoid survive, really talks about being able to be a leader in a world of ambiguity because ambiguity is ever present. Right? Always. We just sometimes lull ourselves into thinking that we know everything.

So Yeah. I don't think particularly for a venture capitalist, ambiguity or is more or, less necessarily. If you start with the assumption, ambiguity is given. Okay? Mhmm.

So I don't think it's about that. How I might deal with things today a little better than I dealt with before is trying to assess clarity of something in you versus the clarity of the same thing in me. Let me explain. You know, a founder who isn't very clear about not at the hundred feet level, but at their thousand feet level. What are they doing?

Why are they doing? Why will they keep doing this? Their true motivations and agenda. Right? Which Sure.

If ambiguity is inevitable, then what do you need? You need flexibility. You need resilience. You need conviction. You also need ability to take feedback.

You need to be able to pivot. You need decision making skills. So these are all skills that there is no score for. There's nobody scorecarding these, necessarily, and they're not even skills that are unfortunately necessarily taught from a educational institution perspective even if you go to the best MBA school. Right?

Yeah. And I find that these softer skills make a very big difference to people's ability to handle ambiguity, and it's not my ability to handle ambiguity as much as it's their ability to handle ambiguity. Right? And so and that's what I'm trying to study for beyond all the other things. You know?

What is the product? What's the what? Beyond all that, the leadership quality of ability to manage through inevitability of change and chaos, which is given. We may not know where and when the curveball comes, but Yeah. Are you able to do that?

So I think I hope I am better able to assess that today than I could before. Is that glide path towards being able to be both responsible and flexible with clarity and those softer skills that you mentioned, is that perhaps the best way to age not only as a leader, but particularly I'm just curious. How how do you find yourself aging gracefully as a venture capitalist? Aging gracefully in any aspect, venture capitalist or otherwise, I think is really more about allowing for failures, right, and not getting personal with things, you know, and letting relationships be more than transactions. Right?

So maybe it comes with little bit more, patience, a little bit more depth of understanding of human nature and the strength and the flaws that is embedded into, being human, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. And, not getting too personal, with those things. Sure.

You know, and and in that ability to, again, let go of ego and really understand the the value of those skills of not taking things personally, You know, I I wonder if the same sort of rules apply, everywhere. They're ubiquitous, whether in your personal space, your professional space, but I think that those ring true particularly aging anywhere. You you and I, when we met, recently at a conference, we were focused on a discussion about tech and particularly guardrails of tech. And thinking about letting go of your personal, ego sometimes, sometimes it can be very difficult when it comes to the guardrails of tech and innovation and entrepreneurship. You know, when you focus on the guardrails of tech, allowing stakeholders in any given ecosystem to then level up and and set that level and find sort of common ground among those guardrails that you set for yourself.

Particularly, I mean, we see this in health care. This is something that you and I briefly talked about where those guardrails don't always translate to the same language that we speak sometimes. Can you structure innovation and entrepreneurship with guardrails in mind, or is that thinking just too prohibitive when you are someone who is designing systems? Again, it's it it does kind of come back to this idea of, are you thinking about yourself, and your own ego, or are you thinking about the sort of entire ecosystem and building those guardrails in mind when you start innovating and when you are designing a system that's actually fresh and new? I hope that makes sense, by the way.

It makes sense in my own way because I think the question itself would be superfluous if we didn't associate guardrails with flexibility. I we talked about flexibility, but I didn't say that gave you permission to transgress your own moral compass and values. Okay? Mhmm. That's not what flexibility is.

Okay? So and letting go of ego doesn't necessarily mean that, you know, you don't have guardrails. I think guardrails are ever present in your life, and the more you are aware of what those are and, you know, they are the true purpose of your life. Okay? Yeah.

And you let go of that, then, you know, you are a kite that's flying in the sky with nothing tethering you. Right? Yeah. And who knows where you would land? That's a problem.

So but I have never been a confused person about what my compass and guardrails are. And I think popular and popular, at times, you have to have the conviction because you feel so strongly about what that purpose of what you're doing, why you're doing. Yeah. And you you do that. And, again, that's not only for my profession.

It doesn't matter what profession you are in. Ultimately, professions are just about a path we have chosen, but the walk and what it takes to walk is more or less the same, you know, on any profession that you take, if you have to get to a certain summit, so to speak, in your in your profession. So when you talk about tech or innovation or health insurance, a very unpopular topic in US or, you know Right. Or any other. There are so many unpopular topics, but we won't go into that.

Right? That's right. So so but I think, I think guardrails are really about what is the cost of profit. Yeah. Right?

And and it it is something you think in small scope and in large scope. But if you don't think in the small details, you perhaps, I love yourself, the permission to not think about it in the large details. So let me explain. Yeah. So, you know, sometimes you have a founder who's not stating genuine revenue, let us just say, because you wanna please the investors.

So you have inflated your numbers slightly, and you know you have inflated it because you wanted slightly higher valuation or whatever it is. And you tell yourself the permission that that's okay. Right? And or on the other side, let's say me as a investor, I know that there was something wrong this company did. But you say as a board member, maybe that's okay.

Maybe they'll correct themselves. Maybe I don't have to call this out because blah blah blah. You know? Sure. Teranos, Elizabeth Holmes, whatever it is.

Right? So you you as a you and I sitting as observers say, what was the board thinking? You know? Right? It's not that the signs were never there.

Right? Yeah. You just somehow got caught into the hubris, and there was a part of you that knew what was wrong. You didn't call it out. Right?

Yeah. And you can look back and regret. You can look back and defend whatever that might be. But the most important is to reflect where did my guardrails go because we have those from kindergarten. My my dog goes into the garden and digs up my vegetables.

And when I point it to her, she goes like this. She knows it's wrong. She may be tempted to do it, but all of us know what right from wrong. Right. And, I mean, whether it's a kindergartner, whether it's your pet dog, whether it's an investor or a or a startup person.

But, you know, when if we're not thinking of those guardrails from the very beginning, especially when designing new systems that seems so lovely and problem solving breakthroughs, if you aren't thinking of those guardrails from the outset in and your compass is aligned with that, particularly when it comes to society and and policymakers there, what do those perhaps policymakers and entrepreneurs and VC individuals perhaps need to learn from each other when thinking about these systems, you know, from the outset? I mean, certainly, AI is at the forefront of this right now, but are are there those kind of moral compass theoretical compass guardrails that we all need to learn a little bit better from each other's when designing policy, when thinking of investments? Wouldn't that be lovely, though? Wouldn't that be lovely, though? But if we could do all that, there would never have been any revolutions.

The, you know, the serfs would have shared with the peasants, so to speak. Right? Right. So you know? And, you know, there would never be any social changes that were ever needed, but history shows and history repeats.

Right? So I and and sometimes, perhaps, when you invented fossil fuels, you didn't know truly what was going to happen. Maybe when you invented oxycodone, you probably didn't know. That is not the sin. The sin is that when you knew, you still, for the sake of profit, let, you know, whatever fentanyl addiction grow.

Right? So that is the problem. And, you know, tobacco, whatever. Right? You sugar.

It doesn't matter, but we can learn from that. So expecting, the the these are these are ebbs and flows of society itself. Right? But how does change ever happen? How do good things ever happen?

Because somebody, many times at personal cost, stands up. So you talked about AI. 12% of researchers in AI, less than 12% are women, and especially in leadership role, the number goes down. If we are half of the world, is the world that more and more is gonna get affected by AI designed by women? We know from the middle ages, dark ages, if we go back to that, the world was not designed for women.

Right? Right. So maybe we made progress. Who knows? Maybe we have not.

It depends on your point of view. Some days it feels like we made a lot of progress and other days it feels like we have not made any progress at all. So is AI gonna take us back into dark ages or is it creating a better world for the other half? Right? So there are so many interesting models.

Are policymakers from just purely the good of their heart gonna do the right thing? I don't know. I don't think so, generally. Right? So I mean, thinking of that, they need they need those those forward thinking entrepreneurs, and they need those venture capitalists to actually guide them in a way and perhaps vice versa.

Right? Well, I mean, entrepreneurs, venture capitalists, policymakers are all people. Okay? At the end of the day, you are a people too. Meaning that whatever requires speaking up.

Change doesn't always come from power circles. Right? Sure. Sure. Was never gonna go and make the world more equitable or whatever.

So when you have power, you're not necessarily incented to do something for somebody who doesn't have that power. That is feels like a immutable law to me. Yeah. But I do think I'm an optimist. I couldn't be in my job if I wasn't and also just by nature.

So I do believe at the end of the day, you know, world balances because people speak up. And often and they act act for the good of, more. And Yeah. To simply believe that it'll always it it doesn't mean it shouldn't come from power circles, but it doesn't always come from power circles. Right?

So the conversation on women in AI is as much my responsibility to lead, not because I'm a venture capitalist that has no power at all in this topic. It's as much your job for the sake of your children or, you know, others who are whatever. Right? So I think the ability to do social good is sometimes not directly related to whether you have power and leverage or not. Power is created by taking action.

You're listening to Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing. After a quick break, we'll come back to our conversation with venture capitalist, Vani Kola. Stay tuned. Conversation.

It's the antidote to apathy and the catalyst for relationships. I'm Abhay Dandekar, and I share conversations with global Indians and South Asians so everyone can say, trust me. I know what I'm doing. New episodes weekly wherever you listen to your podcasts. Hi.

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I'm Lilly Singh, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Hi there. I'm Abhay Dandekar, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Let's rejoin our conversation now with the founder and managing director of Kalati Capital, Varnikola. I wanna ask you this because India as a global leader in tech and innovation is apparent.

That I don't think is is in question at all. I'm curious whether or how can India position itself to be a global leader when it comes to governance? Governance in what aspect, though? Governance from a company, governance from a social equitability? I think both of those.

I don't know if I can answer this question about social equity for you. I'm not, smart enough or vested enough to be able to answer that question because those are no easy solutions to those. Right? So I I don't think I'm in particular qualified to answer that. Governance in the scope of a company is a little simpler to answer because we know, we can say what governance means, and we can say what are the bodies.

So what should good governance be? I don't think there is any dearth of law on that. I think good reasonable loss exist. I think it's enforceability of that. And the due process penalties around that that I think can be, stronger because you can have speed limits.

But if you never get speeding tickets, what is the probability you're always gonna go at the right speed? Right? Yeah. Now more and more technology helps because if you cut that red light, there's a camera sitting there, and it automatically sends you that automated ticket. So maybe you're more compliant.

First, you, of course, need law. Then for compliance to happen, you can't just assume the goodness of a person makes that happen. We know that is definitely not the case, traffic lights. Right? But you need enforceability.

So I think in India, what we could do more and better is think about enforceability, but because of volume and everything, enforceability perhaps can be enhanced with more technology aiding the compliance of governance. And, you know, is is India close to that when it comes to governing companies, especially in the entrepreneurial and tech space? You answered to me if US is closed when because we just had FTX. Right? So, I mean, can you do something after the fact?

Yeah. I think so. And I think, different countries have different priorities to enforce that. But can you do it before? That's a very different question because there is always this power of profit.

And at what time do you realize that the compromises that are made towards that are simply not acceptable. Right? And that therein lies the difficult cliffhanger of governance at times. Right? So that's the problem.

And I think all countries, India or otherwise, are not perfect at it. It's issues happen, and then you improve the quality of, compliance. Let me ask you this. I mean, we you talked about the responsibilities of particularly advancing equity for for women. You and I are both parents of daughters.

And as women face such an enormous burden, probably more so in some ways with the advance of of technology, that inequity that's that's present, what what tangible structural changes would you make particularly to accelerate power and capital for women in in the tech and entrepreneurial spaces that that you have lived in now for for quite some time? I think, literacy when I say literacy, I don't mean from just you went into a good high school and you Right. Did STEM or all of that. Right? First of all, one good thing is with the change, of course, it has been slow in coming.

But if we think about inheritance laws and go back, let's say, hundred and fifty years, women all over the world didn't really have financial power, and you change that to what has shifted over the last few decades to women and financial freedom, both from what they've earned, but also what they have rightfully inherited, in India or otherwise in many countries. Right? So women have genuinely a voice comes from that financial freedom that they have. Financial independence, though, is different from financial literacy. So it's another topic that I am very passionate about.

How do you enable women to have that financial literacy? Right? If you look at equities or structures like fund managers or Mhmm. VCPA industries and Sure. You know?

So they are not present there. Right? So and that has to do with a certain kind of financial literacy that I think we can do more, in terms of, knowledge, education, networks, skills. Right? Yeah.

Now in a different aspect of life, also, I think the literacy of knowing your rights, knowing your I was in a factory run by, women, and this young girl was telling me that in my village, even today, the average age of marriage was 15 or 16. And now that we are working, the average age within five years has gone from that to 23, 20 five, and it came from some of us going to schools all around the villages telling the girls, legally, you're not supposed to marry till 18 and don't because here are all the problems or whatever. So that is a power of literacy. Right? Yeah.

And we sit here, and we assume that's the way it is all around the world. Even in your own backyard, for example, it isn't always the case. Right? Yeah. So I feel that awareness and literacy is very important, and those are things we can do, structurally.

Right? Even entrepreneurship. Right? Oftentimes, women, don't go into entrepreneurship because there is a sort of certain guilt or fear or burden that that comes at the cost of your family, and you would be judged. Right?

Right. And not for a moment, anybody pauses to say, are successful founders, male founders, thinking that comes at the cost of their family and, are being judged socially for it. And it doesn't have to come at the cost of your family, I suppose. I don't I'm we can have a philosophical debate on that. But Right.

Later. But so I think that some of these are things we should have conversations about, and I think conversations can shift mindsets. Conversations do shift mindset. I think there are, some of these big topics that require more literacy. Yeah.

I mean, that that's the motto of this of this presentation show that conversation is the antidote to apathy. At some point, you know, we all have conversations about advancing equity in these spaces of literacy and entrepreneurship and and changing the the caliber, and the quality for that matter of what the structures are for for girls and women particularly. I I imagine at some point, though, money and execution has to still be the name of the game because we we need action on these kinds of things very desperately. And and, hopefully, those conversations are actually advancing these things. I I wanted to ask you about, you know, something.

Your your latest, kaleidoscope, which I love, by the way, speaks of of nostalgia as a very kind of curious and and complex driver, you know, in general. So I'm curious what you maybe miss about your time in Silicon Valley. My hikes in, at the Stanford dish or Rancho San Antonio, which were two common horns. Occasionally, Mission Peak, they were almost a daily part of my existence, and I miss the easy access to nature. I think, California is very lucky to have these open preserves.

And when I was there recently, I was down at the Mendocino Coast and in the redwoods, and I think nature has always been my therapist. Right? Whenever I have a problem, I just get on a hiking trail. Two hours later, the world world looks more beautiful or at least a better place than when I started out fuming or whatever, sobbing. So I think Hopefully not too much sobbing.

Well, sometimes that has also happened. Yeah. That's true. As it happens to all of us. Right?

That's right. So whatever that emotion was, the nature is a great healer, and that's really something I truly, truly miss, the beautiful and easy access, to nature that, Silicon Valley offered me is what I probably miss the most. And, of course, the French that went with it and Right. You know, the conversations, that flowed in that environment and, you know, the early morning, the soaked earth and, you know, the Sure. Aroma, that was so therapeutic.

You can't recreate that in a room with some air freshener. You know? So Right. And I mean, you know, that environment that's around you, hopefully, it it nurtures a a really creative energy and and this sparks lots of of, you know, activity. We we talked a lot this this last few moments and minutes about traits and and, you know, soft skills and and human qualities that are so critical to thinking about morality and thinking about equity and thinking about drivers of how do you organize your day and how do you deal with people.

I'm curious for you. What human traits and instincts do you look for particularly that are critical to build trust in an incredibly AI driven age that we live in and that we're going to continue to live in? I mean, AI, like anything else, is a tool. We are sitting at the cusp of AI, but let's assume for a moment. As I already said, I'm a big reader.

I go back into history a lot. I I enjoy that. I get immersed into that. Let's say you and I are sitting at the cusp of industrial revolution or whatever. And if you said what allows you to build a trust or something, and there were good things that came out of that period.

There were some horrible things that happened in that period. Also, child labor, whatever whatever, safety accidents and, you know, many things. Sure. Yeah. Poverty, many things.

Right? And but, you know, trust is slightly different to me. I don't think it is about any technology. I think it is around trust comes from truth. Trust comes from ability to alter your truth.

So, let's say you're a founder and you tell me, x y z, you know, your product. Let's take something very simple. My product will be launched in the next twelve months. And I go down into the detail, and I believe with whatever experience I have that you have no chance of, you know, launching this in twelve months. Let's just say that.

Right? Yeah. Now that may or may not be material, but how do we have that conversation is what this. Right? Maybe it's not twelve months.

Maybe it's eighteen months. It's not make or break to your success. But can there lies in that narrow zone the question of trust. Trust doesn't mean you agree with me or disagree with me. Trust comes from ability to have open, genuine conversation where we are heard, and we both understand why we are saying what we are saying.

Right? Yeah. Even if we disagree, I would trust you more because I could have that conversation. I know exactly where you stand and why, and that isn't driven. And that is driven by your truth, not because your ego didn't allow you to you.

After we speak, let's assume you do know that I am right, and, you know, I gave you very solid reasoning. And you are convinced, but you don't want to accept that. And when that happens, there is no trust. When your truth comes from a place of your own conviction and reality that stands proof, then I think trust can exist even if we both stand in on different sides of a line. Right?

But that has nothing to do with AI. That has nothing to do with a venture capital and a founder conversation that can happen with, anything, any profession. I know you're a doctor. My my mother was diagnosed with cancer. She passed away, so this is some time back.

But, the doctor called me with the diagnosis. It's a different question why the doctor calls me. This is India. So, you know, the doctor patient relationship is very different. And in India, Doc doctors, when it's life threatening, don't tell the patient.

They tell the next skin. Right? Yeah. That somehow feels like you are saving the feelings of the patient. Let's forget whether that's right or wrong.

I won't go into that. But what I did was the first person I told was immediately my mother because I know her and trust for her with me to go through this end of life journey, which was inevitable at some point, whether that's six months, twelve months, or twenty four months, or thirty six months. Although we didn't have that much time, it turned out we had, you know, about twelve months in in hindsight. But, nonetheless, I wanted that journey between me as her caregiver and supporter and enabler and her to be based on trust. And that Yeah.

Was based on me not thinking she's a fool or that she doesn't have the courage or whatever whatever. For me, knowing her, it was dependent on me being honest with her every step of the way, and that was just our relationship. Maybe in a different relationship, it's different. So I'm not trying to be moralistic about it. No.

Sure. Trust is one of those things which has nothing to do with technology. It is about two people and how they interact in that zone of truth, and that's what it is. I love that. I mean, I think honesty is at the at the core of that, and coming to that understanding builds so much trust.

But honesty, but also listening. Right? Because you are as honest as I am and not on the case of the cancer or whatever. But, you know Sure. Sure.

You're as honest as I am, but we don't agree. Even that is okay. But do we have ability to respectfully understand each other? Then maybe we trust each other. Yeah.

Having that open listening channel is is is huge. Let me get you out of here on this because it's come full circle to thinking about trust, thinking about all the things that we discussed. But at the end of the day, we started with rituals, and and I wanna focus on your ritual of of meditation for a moment. In the end, what has meditation allowed you to perhaps unlearn about yourself? Thirty years now, and I started the practice to make sense of what felt like chaos in my life, and that came from being a young mother to career family, me running a company.

You know, all of that at that moment felt very chaotic and and off the rails, and I kind of needed something to and so I started heartfulness meditation. Mhmm. But over the years, what I had to unlearn is life doesn't always go by your plan, and it's okay, actually. Wherever my life went off rails, if I look back now, I have no regrets about it because it actually take me to a nice place, you know, another beautiful destination, a destination I didn't know existed. So somewhat it's it's a it's an interesting word, surrendering to the universe, but it can be misconstrued in how you might interpret that.

But changing what you can, but embracing what you believe you can't change and going with the flow. There are times in life that you need to go with the flow. And I think that process is not something, as humans, we are very comfortable with because we are so conditioned to be in control. Right? Yeah.

And I think maybe meditation has allowed me to unlearn that I need to be in control at all times and sometimes accept that I'm not in control. It's like in the middle of the stream, and I cannot swim upstream. So I have to go with where the stream takes me, and, hopefully, that works out. So I think that's been probably the most important thing to let go and accept. And and it also opens you to look at opportunities with maybe not trepidation, but with anticipation.

And maybe even I feel gives a little bit of freedom to have adventure. Okay? You know, when you go off trail, of course, you can get lost, but you could also find that beautiful vista, and you'll find your way back on trail maybe if you have cert you know, necessary skills. I am not saying anybody in wilderness should go off trail, but life is a wilderness like that a little bit. Right?

And, so I I feel going off trail is something I've learned through medication. Well Figuratively, of course. Of course. Right. Well, I I was gonna say whether it's staying on some wonderful trails and helping to lead lots of people, but then also finding those beautiful vistas that are out there, I think we're all appreciative, of it, for sure.

Vani, thank you so much. This was such a wonderful conversation, and I hope we can visit with you again down the road. Thank you, Abhay. This is fun. Thank you.

Take care. Thanks again. And if you're enjoying these, please don't forget to share this with a friend, take a moment to write a kind review, or drop us a line at info at dot com. Again, a big shout out to Indiaspora on being that one of a kind gathering ground for doing good. Remember that conversation is the antidote to apathy and the catalyst for relationship building.

Till next time. I'm Abhay Dandekar