TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT I'm DOING

Hi. I'm Doctor Uma Naidoo. I'm the director of nutritional lifestyle and metabolic psychiatry at Mass General Hospital, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing.

My name is Abhay Dandekar, and I share conversations with talented and interesting individuals linked to the global Indian and South Asian community. It's informal and informative, adding insights to our evolving cultural expressions, where each person can proudly say Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing

Hi, everyone. On this episode of Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing, we share a conversation with nutritional psychiatrist, Doctor Uma Naidoo. Stay tuned.

Happy 2025, everyone. And with a new year, many of us likely are turning the page and hitting the reset button, and that often means resolutions to see if we can change behaviors and maybe write ourselves onto a more fulfilling pathway.

And speaking of resolutions, thank you for listening and watching and making Trust Me I Know What I'm Doing part of your day. I know it takes time and effort, and so I really appreciate you engaging with me here and for sharing this with your friends and family. And if you're enjoying these and if you can support the show, please take a moment and share a kind rating or submit a written review wherever you're getting this right now. So at this time of year, as we take a look into our own proverbial mirrors, it's not a secret that food and mood tend to be linked together and often at the center of many efforts to strengthen our minds, our bodies, and our outlook. So it was wonderful to share a conversation with Doctor Uma Naidoo, a nutritional psychiatrist whose work focuses directly on the intersection of food and mental health.

Doctor Naidoo founded and directs the 1st hospital based nutritional psychiatry service in the United States. She's the director of nutritional and lifestyle psychiatry at Mass General Hospital and director of nutritional psychiatry at MGH Academy while serving on the faculty at Harvard Medical School. As someone who grew up in India and who's also a trained chef, Uma has guided so many through the science of how food and nutrition contribute to our mental health. She's also the author of This is Your Brain on Food, where she shows how diet can help treat a range of behavioral health issues from ADHD and anxiety to depression and OCD. Now I specifically have appreciated her 6 pillars of nutritional psychiatry, which I reference in the show notes, by the way.

And so I was eager to talk to her about a range of things, including her latest book called Calm Your Mind With Food, which shows readers a full body approach to relieving anxiety with recipes and meal plans that support the immune and digestive system and promote mental wellness. But I was first curious to hear what myths she typically has to combat when educating people about nutritional psychiatry.

Actually, there are 2. So if I could if I could take a little bit of asking you 2. The first is that people don't realize food affects mood and that food affects anxiety.

They assume that they actually experience have experienced it if you ask them, but they haven't put those facts together, and that it actually has a clinical and physiological and other impact beyond diabetes and hypertension, those conditions. The second is I often get asked, I I I know that you you tell people to never eat sugar. And actually, that's a nuance because your body needs sugar. And and there's a lot of, groups of of individuals and people and, let's say, communities that just are very against sugar. It's not that.

Yeah. It's the type and quality of sugar and where you consume it from. So I think that those are 2 huge myths because, yes, I wouldn't want people eating candy and cake every day, But at the same time, they need to understand that bays are very different forms. Yes. It is sugar.

There's a very different form and your body does need that balance. So those are the 2 things in my little journey that I've come across very repeatedly. When people hear that and and they even are surprised to learn of these links and and how powerful these links are when it comes to either food being so, you know, intimately connected to mood. And then on top of that, the, the role, an important role perhaps that that sugar natural sugars may have. Right.

When when they do have that surprise, is there now a particular informational piece or something that you have to then use as far as storytelling to to really cement those two pieces together to ensure that they will actually have trust in themselves and their instincts to Right. To really follow that. You know, what I tend to do, if you're speaking specifically more on sugar, is I educate them about a few things. And when I say educators, because these are not things we are taught. You know, Doctors don't yet learn nutrition, and it's not our fault.

We have to learn it elsewhere if we want to know more. But our for example, 4 grams of sugar is 1 teaspoon. Our our food labels have grams and no one cooks or bakes in grams. So there's a disconnect right there. So on a half cup of yogurt that's fruited, and you've heard your Doctor say glubert is great for your brain.

Unfortunately, fruited yogurt can have up to 8 teaspoons of sugar. Very different if you do plain yogurt, dairy or nondairy, add in berries, and a little bit of cinnamon for sweetness. And the berries can be fresh or frozen, very different product. So just teaching them that one fact helps them look at the label when they go into whatever it is, whatever food or or beverage that they wanna consume, including kombucha, which I like, but it depends on the amount of sugar added to, to overcome the fermented taste. Right?

And then the other thing I share with them is that fruit is something our body needs. We we should be having enough fruit in our daily diet, but where you get the fruit from and the amount that you eat and how you eat it is key. Let me break that down for you. You know, berries, yes, they are sugar, but if you have a quarter cup of berries as a snack during your day or even strawberries, whatever it is that you're like, I have no like berries and I like turpentine, but or an apple. But those are very different from taking the apple, the quarter cup of berries, and and pulverizing them in a smoothie.

When that happens, the quarter cup, which may take you 5 minutes to chew as you're doing whatever you're doing, will take less than 5 seconds to hit your bloodstream because it's pulverized. It's liquid. Right? And that impact is very different. So, yes, by all means, sweeten up a smoothie with a few berries or some strawberries.

I'd rather you add spinach and greens for the fiber. Have some berries, but don't put a ton of it in because it's actually having a very impact on your blood glucose than chewing having a little cup of berries. So having understanding the form, understanding how they eat it, and then the amount. Because blueberries are great, you should not be eating a tub every day because that amount of sugar is still sugar even if it's natural and is impacting your, your body and your mind in a different way. So just having a few things like that that they can experience in real time and understand because they can read a label or whatever it is, is more convincing than me saying, well, this research showed that because Right.

Honestly, people do lose you at the word research. And we know Yeah. That it's important to back up these facts because it's not soft science anymore. But Yeah. Honestly, people on every day, they just wanna know, should I eat the fruit of yogurt?

Yeah. But not really. But, you know, here's here's a good option for you. No. I love that.

I mean, like, having having at least the practical examples and something that that can be, applied, in everyday life is huge. What if any nutritional guidance is there for moments of content and peace or even celebration? Because we know that excitement and elation and, you know, they they can celebrate indulgence or gluttony and Right. And really throw us overboard sometimes. So is there just as much as food can prompt anxiety, is there also guidance around how food can certainly calm your mind and bring you back into balance, especially when you're overly excited?

It it can really make a difference, and the choices you make and how you consume them are important. One thing I will remind people at this moment is that hydration is so important. So just drinking water is very key because when people are dehydrated, they can appear much more anxious. And often, if we're excited and something great is coming on, we might forget we might be having a glass of wine and forget the water, or we might be indulging in something that's a lot of fun or having a great moment and forget some basic stuff. A lot of what I talk about, Abase, is very boring.

It's it's very boring, but it's very relevant. And let me just share why it's boring. Because I'm not saying never eat spinach, only eat protein, never look at a bean, whatever the latest trend is by whichever influencer or even Doctor that's coming out of there. Yeah. The the basic tenants of eating have really never changed.

It's how Americans have eaten and what the food industry and pharmaceutical companies have kinda done with the marketing. And I think we need to educate ourselves. So Sure. I feel that some basic things that we can do is eat in moderation, eat everything in moderation. If it's your birthday tomorrow, have a piece of cake if that's what you wanna do.

You know, your family gets your beautiful cake. I'm not saying never eat it. Just have a piece, but know that other meals in your day or the next day are salad and healthy foods that you're usually doing, like an 80 20 balance. But those words are not catchy on Instagram. Balance and moderation, they don't get views, you know, they don't get me followers.

But I have to stick to what's true to what I believe because I wanna help the most number of people. Yeah. So I think understanding that we can eat these foods, but even if it's salmon, a healthy food, if you consume seafood, you don't have to eat it 3 times a day. It's it's all about making that not only that moderation, but having what I call a balanced, nutritional psychiatry plate or even an antianxiety plate becomes key. That's great.

Yeah. I mean, I espouse to that quite a bit in the sense that moderation and balance are so critical for not just our physical harmony, but certainly our our brains' harmony, if you will. And and finding that is actually critical when I'm when I'm having conversations in the office, but then also in in regular practice. Right? So Right.

In in a way, this is a way now of of your thinking that you've adopted and you've been, you know, really sort of in practice, but also educating so many both patients and colleagues about this. I I'm I'm so curious for you. Was there an moment for you that really, or even a series of sort of tipping points that took you from that threshold and over the threshold of traditional psychiatry Right. To venture into nutrition? I mean, what what was maybe the the tipping point or or was there sort of a series of those tipping points for you?

There were actually thank you for asking my question. There were actually 2 moments that I'm happy to share. And to take a step back from those two moments, it starts in my childhood where I was just surrounded by healthy eating and nutrition and good and tasty food and was was really blessed to have a family. My, you know, my grandmother cooked and she I would spend time during the day because I I tell people that I tell everyone I was a preschool dropout. I don't know what my parents are thinking.

You know, I refused to go. And so because I wanted to hang out with her. She was so much more fun, you know. And she would teach me and I would watch her cook and I'd, you know, do little as really little. I I don't think I even exist the side the, height of the table.

But I do little tasks for her because I was involved in that experience of the fresh vegetables and stuff. So nutrition, unbeknownst to me until later in life, was very much a part of what I was interested in. Healthy eating, delicious food, spices, also eating in community because my grandparents would sit and eat lunch with me. You know, then my parents would pick me up after they finished work and school. My mom was in medical school, and that was also important.

So Yeah. One of my youngest, memories as a resident, really green, still learning the ropes, was a patient yelled at me because he thought I caused him to gain weight from prescribing an SSRI. Now he'd read the label, but he'd only see me a week before. He'd only just started the med, and he'd already come to me a little bit heavy. But he had this massive cup of Dunkin' Donuts coffee in his hand, favorite coffee in Boston.

You know? And so I don't timid as I was, something occurred to me intuitively. And I said, well, you know, I know you're upset. Let's let's break this down and talk about it. But would you mind telling me what you put in your coffee today?

And not only did that distract me, shared valuable information, quarter cup of ultra processed cream on, because that's what the straws usually have, because it was a big size. Right? And then 8 teaspoons of sugar. So although I'm not much of a calorie counter because I think the quality of food and portions are more important, I broke it down very quickly on the computer. And he then realized before he even ate breakfast, how many empty calories he was consuming every day.

And his you know, it's almost like a light bulb went off. And that was one of my first moments because I realized it changed the relationship. We went on to have a really good therapeutic relationship. We didn't need to raise his medication dose because he wanted to do different things. He wanted to drink his coffee differently.

He wanted to eat differently. He was engaged. Just by sharing a simple nutritional detail that I was intuitively trying to work out for him. It taught me the power in a in a clinical relationship. And the second moment was when I was unexpectedly diagnosed with cancer.

You know, I I was blessed by being exposed to some of the best Doctors in the world, so I had that on my side. But Yeah. One of the things that I was still struggling with is the amount of anxiety it brought because it came out of nowhere. When I realized I was physically experiencing anxiety for the first time in my life, I decided it's one of those look in the mirror moment, like, you do this every day, like, why don't you do it for yourself, you know, because it's why don't you start applying these principles? And because you generally wanna prepare a lot of your meals at home, I, you know, started to have my my grandmother's, like, golden milk several times a day.

I prepared my food more mindfully. I really leaned into food. Mhmm. I ate out much less often, not only because either myself or someone would would help prepare something for me, but I really used food as medicine. And every single week, my Doctors would ask me, well, what are you doing?

Because we're so delighted you're not having these side effects and we're so glad that you are tolerating this better. Not like so long. You give us great food, but it's really not that great. It's pretty bad on the cancer units. And, but they would literally want to know because they noticed the correlation.

I wasn't having the side effects. I was Yeah. I was actually, thank goodness, thriving in treatment, doing okay. You know, the natural things happen. The natural side effects of chemo happen, but Sure.

That you can't prevent, like, hair loss and stuff like that. But for the for the most part, the other side that was my second moment because I thought, wow, if I can feel better and feel less anxious and and not have these side effects, think about how powerful it can be for more people. So it really just spurred me on to want to do more.

You're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. After a quick break, we'll come back to our conversation with nutritional psychiatrist, Doctor Uma Naidoo.

Stay tuned. Every story told is a lesson learned, and every lesson learned is a story waiting to be told. I'm Abhay Dandekar, and I share conversations with global Indians and South Asians so everyone can say, trust me, I know what I'm doing. New episodes weekly wherever you listen to your podcast. Hi.

I'm Vivek Murthy. I'm the 21st surgeon general of the United States, and you're listening to Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.

, everyone. My name is Tan France.

Hi. I'm congresswoman Pramila Jayapal. Hi. My name is Richa Moorani. Hi.

I'm Lilly Singh, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing.

Welcome back to Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing. Let's rejoin our conversation now with nutritional psychiatrist, Doctor Uma Naidoo.

In thinking about that, there's 2 things come to mind.

The first one I wanted to ask was, what did you actually have to unlearn about yourself in order to appreciate that success and really understand how powerful nutrition was in crafting, mood and and really sort of, you know, carving out this niche for yourself. Were were there elements of your own, background or even your own thinking as a Doctor that that you had to, in a way, unlearn and sort of unprogram? It's an interesting question because in some ways, I was sort of doing both. Right? I was, on one hand, getting my chemotherapy, radiation surgery, all of that good stuff.

And at the same time, I was embracing a holistic and integrated approach. So I think if anything, it was a little bit of the unlearning of the medical system and was proven to me by the questions my Doctors were asking me, which is, what do you do? We want our other patients to do that. And all I would say is I'm cooking more often. Family is cooking more often for me.

I'm but I'm leaning into these ingredients. Right? And we know that the same plan may not affect everyone, but it was a little bit of unlearning of relying only on, medicine. You know, I I took the absolutely what was necessary for my treatment, but I also didn't necessarily lean on any extraneous extra medications that were needed. So if it was part of my protocol, I would take it.

And the unlearning was, well, I'm not sure that I need that. If I can manage my nausea this way, if I can, you know, ginger is great for nausea, you know. And as long as it's not interacting with my medications, I'm okay. So the little little bit of that, like, how can we curtail this? So does it it was, it's an interesting question that you asked because it was a mixed bag of things I was doing, but I was unlearning, not relying heavily on the medical system all the time.

Yeah. Well and then the second thing I was gonna ask was this was perhaps a a signature event for you that came out of crisis, and that in a way was also some of the ingredients were not only coming out of crisis, but, you know, thankfully, you're someone who is highly educated and you have the privilege of being a physician. And and so how how do you perhaps marry some of these moments for people who are either not at that educational level or not with that kind of financial background and privilege to have the best care and even the best information available to them. Can these same kinds of great moments happen for for those who do not have that kind of success and privilege? So let me take an outside of cancer care only and just take it into medical care and kind of social and economic sort of demographics.

And what I would say is one of the things I really focus on in my platform and my work is how does how can we have everyone have have access to the information at the very least. Right? I may not be able to change the supermarket you have in your region, but I can certainly educate you if you have a dollar store. I will literally go into every dollar store and see if I have time and see what actual whole food they have. Like, they have canned fish.

They actually have canned salmon. It's not a dollar 25, by the way. Not sure why it's still called a dollar store, but, you know, but you can you know, I don't want you to buy a lot of the other kind of I don't want you to buy the other food there. But they do come canned fish, and sometimes they have, canned tuna or canned chicken, which at least is actual food. Yeah.

And I'm not saying that that should be your only choice, but I will try to think about ways that people can navigate a supermarket. How can you live on a budget? Can you go to those center aisles and buy those canned fish, mussels, oysters, all by the way, great brain food. Yeah. Beans, legumes, lentils that will feed a family for much much longer and actually save you money.

Can you buy frozen vegetables over fresh? You know, how do you think about it? So I'm a big proponent of wherever you are if you try to think of the whole food versus a processed version of it, Easiest being orange juice. Think about, can you rather get the orange for your family? You can get the vitamins and nutrients, everything you need versus the o j in the in the, cotton which has added sugar to it.

Can you think about having a small do you have space to have a small vegetable garden and grow maybe leafy greens? Can you afford to do that? And is it is it an is it an of economic benefit to you? Can you think about buying a a food costing expense that we did at culinary school? Can you buy a rotisserie chicken if your family consumes chicken?

Because believe it or not, it's usually just cooked in its own fat and skin versus fast food meals with the toy and the soda or the milkshake. Because I promise you, if I showed you that with the one rotisserie chicken, you could create 3 meals over 3 days. One meal a day and save money because you're not buying the junk. That will teach a mom or a parent or a caregiver to make a slight shift in what they're doing. And so I think it's how do we approach it and how do we help more people understand.

We just it's just a little bit more thinking that it's involved, and not we may not all have the same information, but at least try try to eat the whole food when you can. I love the guide wires here because there are so many tentacles, as you mentioned, so many intersections here with economy and equity. And and on top of that, just even taking into account what one's own personal situation is, and it's great to kind of, you know, tailor that to to one's own situation. Given the audience that that we certainly, are are speaking to and on top of that, just our own common backgrounds here. Right.

I wonder if you can help connect the dots a little bit between your work and some of the common themes that we see in the South Asian community. Right? So whether that be our own nutritional guide wires and the things that you mentioned already with your own upbringing, but then, you know, the lives that we live globally. Right? There are some there are common themes that that we see in the South Asian community, not just in America, but, you know, worldwide.

And is there some particular guidance that that you've now been able to gain some insight towards that you can share perhaps that that are very relevant to our own community? Well, first and foremost, I I feel like South Asian food is underappreciated because it is super delicious, and the use of spices is not for that. That's for sure. The use of spices is something that's undervalued as well because people don't I'm not saying spicy, just the use of spices because it can be so rich in antioxidants and anti inflammatory ingredients. And the pure spice has no salt or no sugar, no added calories literally.

So it's a pretty healthy way to go to flavor food, not a spice blend, but the actual spice. I think that in thinking about it, especially from the metabolic standpoint, I think that, you know, culturally different parts of India, where many of us or our ancestors originate from eat certain starches, which I think then if we thought a little bit more carefully about flipping the ratio on less of the starch, still enjoying it, still still having it, not not saying give it up, but thinking about the type of grain that is used and leaning in more to, you know, a plant forward diet and and healthy clean protein. So where if we eat fish and beef and chicken and everything, where are we getting it from? Where are we sourcing it? Can we look at the sources of that?

Can we look at precautions? If we don't and we vegetrain, leaning into those vegetables. But maybe the lightening up on the level that vegetables are cooked, because it it will give us less nutrition. I'm just worried about the the the fats. Like, I'm I'm not so worried about gutter, about butter or ghee.

I'm much more concerned about deep frying, and can we think out of the box about learning to air fry more of the stuff that we enjoy, how can we rethink our kitchens? Lean into the spices, add in the vegetables just because we all need more fiber, clean sources of whether it's our chicken or whatever whatever meats that you eat, or seafood. And how do we change that ratio of, you know when I was a child, one of my grandmothers would remember when she ate lunch, she, ate a little bit of the curry that or curries that were prepared, but a very large serving of parsley rice. Right? And she was very petite.

She was never overweight or anything like that. I think times have changed, and we are living in a different era where food has been industrialized in United States, and you've lived in the United States as I have now for most of my life. Whether you like it or not, that's the food you eat even if you go on a healthy about. So I think that South Asians need to rethink enjoying the foods that we love, lightening them up in a certain way, leaning into our spices, and changing the portions and ratios of some of the foods we eat. It's almost like we need the, sort of 6 South Asian pillars, that's, you know, that can be very catered to to us, you know.

And and and in a way, if you think about your grandmother and the difference between what her existence was in India versus now a population, like all of us in our middle ages and and even those who are, you know, seniors as well. For those of us out there, is there one or more of these kind of 6 pillars, that really speaks to aging gracefully, that really speaks to combating dementia, that really speaks to, you know, staving off the anxieties perhaps and the pitfalls of aging. Just like you mentioned, sort of like, you know, not only just the the portions we consume, the the content that we're consuming. How do we, as South Asians, perhaps really gracefully age in the context of nutrition and and combating some of these mental health and mental hygiene ills? Believe it or not, some of it, there's a real overlap with what, you know, people who may not be South Asian should be doing.

And I'll come back to those, and then by the next time you you and I talk, I'm gonna have more exciting words for you. But I still come back to that, sort of, that balance and consistency of what we do. Because one of the things that is a huge plus in our communities is there's a sense of community. And Yeah. Many families are multi generational.

So if you think about the work of the blue zones, they talk about eating in community and having your tribe and having your family around or having your your your village around and eating. It's one of the things that is a plus in our communities because much of it is built in. And I say to my younger patients who are living alone in New York or Boston, you know, get on Zoom and talk to your families, you know. Creative friends' thanksgiving, which I think is a great idea because your family you may not be able to get to your family this holiday, whatever. Right.

But I I think that it also comes down to those tweaking a little bit of if if, say, someone is aging and they are still consuming a lot more of the carbohydrate balance like my grandmother did. It's different now because they're at a different age and stage than she was when I was little. So just maybe switching that up, adding in those blueberries, leaning into turmeric with a pinch of black pepper, there's a good amount of evidence for that. You know, having that golden chai my trick with golden chai is because I travel so much, I was always, you know, my plant based milk webs always throwing them out. So I just make a little bit of hemp milk and I have the recipe in my book, calm your mind with food.

Easy to make and I can make a small amount. And it's super creamy when you make it. So I actually now do my golden chai with that, but I have it more often. But the other thing that that aging South Asians and others need to think about is muscle mass. Because they deal with sarcopenia, so making sure they're getting enough protein.

If you consume yogurt, Greek yogurt, great source of protein. If you consume meat and other other foods, all of those have great sources of protein. But may don't don't lose sight of that because they some of my older relatives don't wanna eat as much anymore, and they still have to eat enough protein to feel healthy and also movement, you know. Usually, they have the yoga and meditation down. They kind of, you know, they they usually have that down and another thing the community has going going for them.

But I think if we built in, you know Walking. Walking. You know, I I can't see some of my old aunts and uncles always going to the gym because they didn't grow up that way. But can they walk? You know?

Can they walk their dogs? Can they walk to get the newspaper? Can they walk to get a cup of coffee? Can they just walk in their community? And just that sense of community is is so, so important.

I mean, especially for bone health and for mental health, you can Yeah. And sunlight. Getting some sunlight, you know, which helps their vitamin d before they put on sunblock, about 10 minutes before you turn your sunscreen or sunblock is a great way. And vitamin no vitamin d is associated with increased anxiety, increased depression. So it's just an easy thing an easy thing to do.

You're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. After a quick break, we'll come back to our conversation with nutritional psychiatrist, Doctor Uma Naidoo. Stay with us.

Conversation. It's the antidote to apathy and the catalyst for relationships.

I'm Abhay Dandekar, and I share conversations with global Indians and South Asians so everyone can say, trust me. I know what I'm doing. New episodes weekly wherever you listen to your podcast.

Hi, everyone. This is chef Vikas Khanna.

I am a chef. I am an author, filmmaker, documentarian, and you're listening to trust me. I know what I'm doing.

Hi. This is Madhuri Dixit

Hi. This is Farhan Akhtar. Hi. This is Vidya Balan, and you're listening to Trust Me. I know what I'm doing.

Hi. I'm Krish Ashok, author of Masala Lab, The Science of Indian Cooking, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing.

Hi there. I'm Abhay Dandekar, and you're listening to Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.

Let's rejoin our conversation now with nutritional psychiatrist, Doctor Uma Naidoo. How about the opposite? I mean, I'm a pediatrician, so I'm dealing with young children and teens and young families, a lot. So we, you know, we have one end of the spectrum where we are trying to particularly, you know, gracefully age. How about those youngsters out there who are and and those particularly those teens and young adults who are out there?

How can we actually help establish and solidify great nutritional habits, especially in an era where we have anxiety pitfalls at every corner seemingly? I think it's a great question because, you know, as I look at it and and I see the level of anxiety in in teens and young kids, I also then look at what what they're eating. You know, it's in the environment. It's it's California is actually on the cutting edge of what they're changing in the in the school diets and stuff like that. But but not everywhere is the same.

And I know other places are trying, but we're not there yet. Yeah. So I I'm a big proponent of how you eat at home is what you learn. So I think as as parents, as hard as it is, restarting the kitchen differently is important. Involving them in food purchasing, whether it's a farmer's market or the supermarket, teaching them little kids, teaching them colors and textures of food and fruit.

Having them understand, you know, that there's a farmer's market or there's a farm you can take them to and where food comes from. That becomes I I say this in part because I sort of indirectly, I didn't have as expansive knowledge of it when I was little, but I was definitely exposed. And I know how it became really part of my DNA was understanding where food came from and how it was cooked and what was prepared. I think that's really key. And I know that what I'm saying is gonna make it hard on parents because, you know, the kids might be eating snacks that you don't want them to eat, but can we start to switch it up?

Can you start to make ice cream from fruit? Can you start to make snacks that, may take a little bit more time, but introduce that along? Because if you have candy on the counter, that's what they can eat. If you have cookies on the counter or the cover, that's what they're gonna eat when they're hungry. But if you have and stop to switch out what breakfast is, like, you know, one of my pet peeves is is cereal, and can we change that?

Can can we Yeah. And I'm not I just wanna be very clear. I'm not judging people around this. I'm just saying, can we rethink what we're doing? Because these things we now know are not great for us.

So Yeah. You know, again, having the rainbow available Great. For people and really, making sure that that, as you say, the greener, the better for those choices. And I think reclaiming this notion that you can set great just like we set great behavioral boundaries, as parents, setting those nutritional boundaries, you know, is also a wonderful way to sort of involve the family, involve the children, having, those choices be made by everybody. And in and almost in a way empowering those habits from the very beginning.

You know, I'd I'd love to share a story recently. So I had a client I was working with, and based on the work we're doing, she she was now trying to change things at home. And she said to me, my son eats this bag of snacks that's a very popular one, and I suddenly started to read what was in it, and I was horrified. Yeah. So I said, well, what did you do?

She said, well, as he finished that last bag, because she didn't wanna waste waste it, she showed him she asked him to read the ingredients. He couldn't pronounce most of them. She then taught him that that was not food and that she shared that she was now educated that this was not a good idea. And she said, look. I want you to have snacks, but I'm gonna buy you healthy versions or look for versions that have fewer nasty ingredients in them.

And he was a little upset and he said, but I like these. And she said, well, if you're gonna have snacks at home, I'm gonna replace them in the future, but I want you to know why I'm doing it. And he's a teenager and he was pretty fed up with her, but he was also educated about that. So it's also how you do it. And so she'd started to buy these healthy versions of things that may not as been well, one thing they're not gonna tap into is, his, addict sort of addiction circuits and reward Yeah.

You know, because they're all engineered to be a certain way with our reward pathway, so they'll be different. But it was sort of if you're gonna have a snack, this is what you're gonna have. And you can also have apples and other fruit available, and the crunchy snack will be this version, and we'll start to explore healthier options. But I'm no longer buying that. That's a a great example of, like, look, you know, let me explain why and and it's just how I nasty.

Yeah. Right. Right. But those boundaries and and laying out the groundwork for for hopefully future habits and and sort of cutting off that dopamine, you know, responses is very helpful. I'm curious for you.

A lot of times, at least, it's quite buzzworthy right now and and has been for a little bit, but at the center of it, maybe just our our gut microbiome. So I'm curious if it this is such a major key in our healthy balance, particularly between that state of stagnancy and anxiety and the, you know, peace and motion that we enjoy in our lives, especially a peaceful motion. Yeah. What behavioral cues perhaps should people be more aware of when trying to curate their gut microbiome to establish that kind of great balance that we always seek. So a few a few ideas about the gut microbiome and the United States.

Most people in this country do not consume enough fiber. That's been shown in research. We're actually very focused on protein, and you should have protein by all means. Maybe not the massive amounts people are guiding us right now to eat, but you should have good sources of protein and enough protein in your diet. But most people ignore fiber.

And where do you get fiber from? Rule number 1 is fiber. So vegetables, fruit, beans, nuts, seeds, legumes, healthy whole grains. You don't get it from animal proteins or seafood. But lean into those vegetables and plant foods is your best way of getting in fiber.

So think the colors, the textures, the different types of all foods. And, you know, we're not talking Skittles candy. We're not we're not talking about that kind of stuff. I'm not that rainbow. Specific.

Exactly. Not that rainbow. So that's one thing. The second thing is other things that really help the gut healing. Things like fermented foods.

Every culture has a fermented food. So pick a few that you would like and your family likes and add in a little bit every day. I love kimchi. And, you know, there are great store bought versions from good stores that you can get. You can make it at home, but a little bit with a salad or whatever it is you're eating.

It's actually giving your gut fermented foods, and they've been found to be very anti inflammatory to and this has been shown in research to the gut. So that's another easy thing. Adding those probiotics through things like plain yogurt, dairy or non dairy yogurts, and and that's another great way to do it. Some people take a supplement. If that's your choice, not against supplements, but it may be something to think about.

But if you're gonna take a supplement, do it consistently because taking it for 2 weeks and stopping just reverses the changes in your microbiome. So if you found a good probiotic that you like, stick with it and and continue to take it, but, you know, as well as adjusting your diet. Hydration is another one. And the the first one is gonna be cutting back on the sort of junk foods, fast food, extra sugary foods that we're eating because that's what throws off the balance in the gut, as well as our lifestyle and other things. So those are just a few ways to get started.

You know, with all of those great instructions and reminders so let's say I'm practicing all those things, but I I noticed that, you know, hey. In the process of doing this, that I can also notice my patterns of behavior and that I can be, you know, aware of my moods. And as I'm trying to titrate this and find the right method forward, I mean, you know, something that's so important right is consistency and Right. Trying to find that that great consistency. So are there particular ways that I could be more mindful of my own imbalances and then start tweaking the the diet so that I can actually reverse course or quickly adjust, in a way?

So it's a pool of nutritional psychiatry that I call body intelligence. Mhmm. And as I said at the beginning, you know, people have often noticed something related to food, but they don't recognize or put the facts together. It's it's taking into account emotionally. You can journal about it.

You can type notes on your phone, or you can just say it to your loved one or say it to your family friend, Doctor, whoever it is, I ate this and I felt that. Take note of those things because here's a nuance. I mentioned fiber. Someone with IBS, IBC, SIBO, other gut related conditions, they can't just start eating a bunch of fiber. Many of us actually can increase our fiber gently and, you know, not feel sick.

But those individuals can really feel more uncomfortable because it's not that the fiber is bad, it's just that they have a GI condition which, you know, doesn't tolerate that amount of fiber or that they are dealing with other things that need to help the condition that's underlying. So I feel like paying attention to body intelligence is key. I've had people tell me that, you know, they switch out a glass of wine or they have dinner earlier. They have if they do drink wine, they have it early in the day. If they have dinner, they have it earlier.

That they have switched out what they eat for breakfast or lunch for dinner, and they feel different. Paying attention is different. Why do you sell why do you think they sell donuts and pears? Because you could never eat 1. You eat 1 and you you die for 3 more because Right.

It's not satiating. It's not the same as a chia pudding. Because you might eat a little bit of chia pudding with nuts and seeds and berries, and you'll be, like, full for several hours. Now, very different. Right.

So I think that paying attention to those things become important because they help guide you on your own can self direct towards a better choice of food, a snack, even on the go, if you're rushing or you forgot your lunch at home or whatever it might be, is a way to understand what your body is is coping with Yeah. Or responding to or reacting to. I love that, especially the, idea of thinking a little bit about either journaling or being very aware of, you know, food in a resulting mood, that that it comes. Let me get you out of here on this. I mean, for you personally in, you know, the insights that you've gained and the experiences you've had and and being a cancer survivor and also equipped with the knowledge as a nutritional psychiatrist, what perhaps are are some of the either rituals or resolutions that you hope to now kind of gather and really solidify for yourself that might be great examples for others to follow?

You know, the person person foremost, I'll just tell him I'm not a perfect eater. I I I try to help people, but I'm always also trying to help myself. Not selfishly, but more that none of us eats the perfect diet or does perfectly. So having having that sense of patience with ourselves and grace with ourselves is important, especially in the new year. Because we usually had a fun, you know, celebration over the holidays or whatever it might be.

So rather than holding regrets, think about your way forward. One of the things that I find useful is whether it's a birthday or party or cupcake, whatever it might be, what am I doing next? You know? Am I going to build in more treadmill time? Am I going to have more salads this week?

What am I going to do? Creating some sort of a a meal planning structure actually really helps. One of the things, I've been traveling a lot, so one thing one of the things I wanna build in the new year is back to my batch cooking much more often because it's been hard to do with not being home. And my planning you know, usually, for me, I do 3 days at a time. I think for me to prepare 7 days at a time of food, I I doesn't appeal to me, so I do 3 days.

And that that's what works for me and for my family. But bringing that back in a more structured way is gonna be important for me. An easy thing is hydration. You know, having a sustainable water bottle even in winter, even when it's cold, you know, now airports everywhere. And I think you guys led the way Yeah.

In San Francisco. You know, have these great water fountains with with water that you can, you know, you can fill. So so be you know, make sure you're doing that with whatever whatever else you consume. So I think that these are the things that will help. You can you can always move it forward.

You know? So Yeah. Well, being resolute and being graceful and giving ourselves license to build our own journeys both with nutrition and our own mental health. Thank you so much, Uma, for for sharing all your insights, for all the work that you're doing. I I would urge everyone to go out and read your book and calm our minds with with food as much as we can, and we'll certainly take away any of your information and insights whether that's with Tom Brady or not.

We we love it all. So, thank you so much for joining, and I hope we can visit with you again. Definitely. Thanks so much for having me, Abhay. Lovely to see you.

Thanks so much, Uma. And please check out all of Doctor Naidoo's work with links to her books and meal plans at umaNaidoo md.com. Big shout out to anyone and everyone out there who's trying to make themselves better through nutrition and mental wellness, and remember, you're not alone. Thanks again for listening or watching, and please don't forget to submit a kind rating or review. Till next time.