TRUST ME I KNOW WHAT I'm DOING

Namaskar, namaste, and namaSLAY. This is Sushant Divgikar aka Rani KoHENur, and you're listening to trust me. I know what I'm doing.

My name is Abhay Dandekar, and I share conversations with talented and interesting individuals linked to the global Indian and South Asian community. It's informal and informative, adding insights to our evolving cultural expressions, where each person can proudly say, trust me, I know what I'm doing.

Hi, everyone. On this episode of trust me, I know what I'm doing, we share a conversation with artist Sushant Devgikar aka Rani KoHEnur. Stay tuned. Maybe this isn't a completely novel realization, but I found through the years that art is a pure exploration of one's truth. So in the spirit of finding your own truth, I hope that listening or watching this is a meaningful part of your day serving and adding to your purpose and value.

I know listening takes time and effort and so I'm greatly appreciative to you for engaging with me on trust me I know what I'm doing and for sharing this with your friends and family. And if you're enjoying these and if you can support the show, please take a moment and share a kind rating and submit a written review wherever you might be getting this right now. So when we communicate and express our purest truth, says art, the results can be galvanizing, not just for the content, but for what emotions and actions it sparks in those around you, and also the self reflections and realizations. For many artists, both the power and peace of this liberated communication can be especially rewarding, and so it was really terrific to share a conversation with the multidimensional artist, Sushant Divgikar, also known as Rani KoHEnur. Sushant is a gender fluid actor, singer, activist, and drag performer based in India.

Among Sushant's many, many accolades and firsts over the years, performances on Saare Ga Mappa and Big Boss 8 were highly visible milestones that led to many more breakthroughs and served as collective hallmark achievements for India's queer, trans, and LGBTQ communities. With a background in psychology and training in dance and musical theater, Sushant's stage persona, Rani KoHEnur, continues to remind us all that art and performance excellence is not bound at all by gender or labels. What it also does is accelerate opportunities for others and cultivate trust for those who seek to be their most authentic selves. Whether performing on RuPaul's Drag Con, frontlining a skin care brand, appearing in numerous film or OTT roles, or recently headlining a major Navratri festival in Gujarat, Sushant's authenticity is rooted in family and community. We caught up to talk about all these explorations, about what Sushant's had to learn and unlearn, and even about parenting and the gifts of family.

But since it was garba season and the song baula was running through my head, I wanted to find out among the many shapes that Sushant's art takes if singing and music are where Sushant was finding the most freedom and liberation. First of all, thank you. You are you're so kind, and, you're just making me blush in in on this very uncomfortably hot afternoon, and it's it's so humid in Mumbai. I mean Yeah. It you're just making my day, already and I've just about started my day.

And you're just, like, just fantastic about it and about all that I do and and it's so so nice to hear that my art, you know, sort of and that's that's the power of art, isn't it? That it it transcends borders. It, reaches people, regardless of your nationality, where you are in the world right now. And thanks to technology, at the click of a button, you get to experience, other people's, journeys and and and and their art. And so I think through my art, through my artistry and my music mainly, as you as you rightly said and or other questions, I am liberated when I sing.

I think that singing and music allows me to become one with my truest authentic self. And and I'll tell you that because, I am, as you said, a multidisciplinary artist and, multi, you know, faceted as you as as you can say, as one might say because, I I like to dabble, between genres. I don't like to, how convince myself that I'm only capable of, a couple of genres and not, capable because every artist, should allow themselves to explore. Yeah. And that is the power of art.

That's the beauty of it. Because nobody has art has no boundaries. Right. So the only boundaries that art has are the ones that we create. And by the way, in all of those, you know, genres that you explore and yet singing and vocal performance is, you know, perhaps where you can be your most authentic self and be free.

Does does the idea of having breadth to the art that you express, how you express yourself and those passes, this is it additive to make the vocal performance even that much better, especially the more you explore and and the more the more those boundaries actually seem to disappear between the genres? Yes. Because, recently with Bawla, as you mentioned, we mixed disco funk and, and Rajasthani folk music, Rajasthani, elements and vocals. And then you took, then then then Mikey sort of used the electric and bass guitar, along with the violins and the saxophones. And, I mean, who would have who would have sung that you you got, this banger of a song, which combines and, and and it's for this wonderful album by Warner Music called Maati.

Maati. Right. Marty means Maati means soil of the motherland. Yeah. And and that's so beautiful because we are combining all and and amalgamating rather.

Mhmm. We're amalgamating various, very many forms of, music and, bringing to you the the actuality that is fusion. The music that is, that's a fusion of cultures, of of art, and, of different genres. Music for me is, song and lyrics. And not to say that only song or only lyrics, you know, don't make sense.

But when put together, they create, this wonderful, magical experience for the listener. And and when you are in a position now where you are up on stage or in the studio and helping share your art and in a way, not only helping other people to experience. And and I've often thought of art as basically anyone's exploration of their own truth. Yes. You know, we all live in various scenes and those sometimes those scenes we feel really at home and sometimes we feel like we're kind of exploring the unknown and we're being bold and we take risks.

Do you find that now at your stage in in your career and at your stage in this sort of profession that you're equally kind of doing both, you know, sort of perfecting the art of what's comfortable and also exploring the art that might be bold and adventurous and taking risks. Do do you navigate both of those kind of on a constant, basis? You know, I'm gonna call you Daga because, it's it's so much easier. And I feel like I'm speaking to somebody who is, you know, I mean, as soon as somebody's mad auntie, you just become like a big family anyway. Right.

That's true. And then it's just you know, Dada, the best part about when I started off about 18 years back, I was I was a teenager, and I was about 15. And I didn't think about the fact that I would ever I started off as a background dancer, okay, and for Terence Lewis and his academy. I was also a trainer back then. I was training myself and also training other people in in various dance forms, especially, modern, contemporary jazz ballet and Kathak.

A little bit of Kathak, a little bit of Bharatnatyam. And, then there was salsa. There was, you know, the the they're inventing really various styles like Bali jazz, mixing Bollywood, and jazz Sure. Choreography. And back then, I'll be very honest, I never thought I would take up, you know, a performance art as a profession.

Because back then, we were told, that this is not a real profession. Right. This is a hobby, and it should stay a hobby. But a real profession is being a doctor or an engineer or a lawyer. And, this was not even considered forget a career, but, you know, when you when when if somebody did it, they were, considered loose.

They were considered easy, and they were considered, you know, all sorts of things and, you know, worse objectives, actually. Right. And, you know, promiscuous and all of that, like, you know, oh, she doesn't have character. She doesn't have this Yeah. Because he he doesn't, you know, care about, anybody but himself.

There's no security and all of this rubbish. And, I just I, have been thankful and grateful every day to the universe for giving me the parents I have today. Mhmm. And and I I was born too. Yeah.

And they have been so phenomenal in my growth. The artist I am today is only and only thanks to the upbringing and the values that they've inculcated in me. And that shows you know, I I don't I don't care if this sounds boastful or, if this sounds That's okay. Yeah. You know, or whatever.

But my parents are just amazing. Like, for a middle class company Marathi, you know, my family living in Mumbai working, you know, God fearing, working very hard and working over time to make sure that, you know, ends are met and their children go to school and and can have a good education. I don't think I've seen anyone like my parents and then me coming out, you know, my brother also choosing, not a profession that boys don't usually choose. You know, he chose hospitality. You know?

So my thing is I mean, he was a person and then, you know, now he's training to be a pilot and and he's just about training now. And, you know, he's about 37 and 30 or 38. And my parents have never said no to, you know, pursue our dreams. So when I when I'm on stage, I think I I get this whole energy, which where I encapsulate the entire arena in my honor. And I don't consider any other option available.

I don't think that I can fuck up on stage or I should fuck up on stage and pardon my French, but, there are no place there is no place for fuck ups in my dictionary or on stage because when I'm on stage, I can't explain to you. But any stage, whether it is for, you know, a boutique show which has 50 people or it's a show which has more than 50,000 people, which I just did just this whole month nearly I've been performing. And it's just one after the other and every day and, you know, and and there is no there is no, bandwidth for me to fuck up. You know? Well, let me ask you.

Do you feel that because you have such discipline and such high expectations, given the journey that you just described and parents who and a family that that loved you and supported you throughout all of this, going into a a profession that that has very high demands, do you is there safety on stage? Do you find that you you are allowed to Yes. You know, be comfortable and safe and yet all this at the same time, like, take lots of risks and and be yourself. Yeah. I you know, honestly and as I was saying, when I started off, I never expected that I would be this, you know, this glamazon.

I was a very shy kid, and I was very I was, you know, true to my name, Sushant, that I was given by my parents. And now, you know, of course, there would have been no Rani with without a Sushant. Right? Yeah. And, but Sushant was actually very shant, very quiet when I was growing up.

And I could never fathom this this person that I am today. I voice for the voiceless. I think it's my duty to, support my community. Not just my community, but any other marginalized group or sect of people that are, marginalized not because they want to be marginalized. You know?

They're just because I think as human beings somewhere, there is a sadistic pleasure to see somebody below us. And it's so shit. It's such a shithole trait that we have as humans. And I think we need to all work on it collectively. So and and then I also realized that I think that this power you speak about or speak of and this fierceness and, unabashed, unapologetic personality on stage is a definitely a reflection, and the safety net as you're speaking is definitely there because have you seen the amount of love my audience gives me regardless of what's between my legs or what's between my chest bones or what's between my you know, they judge me for what is me, who I am Yeah.

And who I have been and who I will always be. Yeah. A lot of people are like, oh, no. I'm pretending to be nice or I'm pretending to be this, you know, godmother to I was like, 18 years, I'm not going to pretend. Right.

And I'm very vocal about, you know, shit that flies across me, and I'll catch it and throw it back at the person who sent it. You know what I'm saying? And they're like, oh my god. But I threw it in the air, but you caught it. Yes.

I caught it. I'll smash your face in it. That's true. It's like that. So I'm like I honestly think that, you know, when I'm on stage and the the safety I feel is because of my parents.

Yes. My immediate trend circle, my workplace. But I also have to tell you, I give myself credit. I claim this only because if I would not have made people feel uncomfortable around me, they wouldn't experience this comfort around. I I have realized that people open up to me easier.

It's easier to open up to me only because or or have a good conversation with me. I give those vibes. Like, if I wasn't if I was this uppity little bitch that, you know, felt felt she was precious and I felt like, you know, if somebody got my pronouns wrong the first time, I would kill them or, you know, I would I would want to, you know, be aggressive. I'm not that person. Right.

I just think that if I took 30 years to understand my pronouns, how can you expect somebody else to understand them in 30 seconds? In a way, you that safety that you have on stage and the, you know, vibrancy that you exude, you're giving people license to be safe, and you're welcoming them at the same time. 100%. And, you know, I have moved into this wonderful new palatial home, which I give myself full credit for, because I work my ass off. Right.

Right. But I I make sure that this this space even is a safe, say, space and a safe haven for so many queer kids. And I'll tell you again why. Because when I was growing up, and I I used to live with my parents for the longest time till the lockdown occurred. And then after that, I moved out and I chose to move out close to my parents.

Although it's very expensive where the the area they they live in Yeah. And I'm dying, but it also pushes my boundaries and I don't get com and I don't stay complacent for more than a day. I'll be like, oh my god. I'm a queen. And then the next day, I have to wake up and go to work again.

Right. And I'll be like, yes. The queen also has duties. You know? The queen also has to do the Yes.

So I also have to wake up at 6 AM, and I like doing it because it's this whole, you know, pattern that it's become, like, as you said, the discipline. And this also comes from my parent. I'll tell parents. I'll tell you why. This place that I'm I'm I'm residing in right now, this home, is so beautiful, and I want the kids to experience the safety.

So my kids, you know, the other day, one of my sons, my trans sons, you know, he's just gotten his surgery done and and, he's just transitioned. So when he had this major dysphoria and he had these doubts, and he was crying and he called one of my older children in Goa, And he was talking to him. And, then I felt like so so, you know, when my oldest son called me and told me, mama, you know, the, you know, the my sibling is, like, really in pain. And I was like, oh, sure. So why didn't you tell me?

Why didn't he tell me? And, he was like when I heard that, I was like, okay. Maybe I've been very you know, maybe my kids have not experienced my love as much as they've experienced my strictness or, you know, as a mother. But Which by the way, is is all part of parenting. Right?

Yes. Also, you know, so I have to I I think, you know, the the lines are now blurred because I think his parents now today and has especially chosen families and queer families. Yeah. I think that those lines are blurred. But, of course, I was like, please share with me.

You should share with me because I'm here for you. I mean, if I call if you call me your mother, then you come to mother. Mother provides. Right. You know what I mean?

Right. You're listening to Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing. After a quick break, let's come back to our conversation with Sushant Devgeekar, also known as Rani KoHEnur. Stay tuned.

Conversation. It's the antidote to apathy and the catalyst for relationships. I'm Abhay Dandekar, and I share conversations with global Indians and South Asians so everyone can say trust me. I know what I'm doing. New episodes weekly wherever you listen to your podcast.

Hi. This is Vidya Balan, and you're listening to Trust Me. I know what I'm doing. Hi. This is Madhur Dixit.

Hi. This is Farhan Akhtar. Hi. I'm music recording artist, Sid Sriram. Hi.

I'm Krish Ashok, author of Masala Lab, The Science of Indian Cooking, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Welcome back to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Let's rejoin our conversation now with Sushant Devgeekar, also known as Rani KoHEnur. People perhaps make, unfortunately, lots of assumptions about everyone. But they Yeah.

They might like you mentioned, like, you know, people think that, you know, oh, this is a queen. You're not getting up till 12 o'clock, and you have plenty of people around you to handle you. And yet there's a rigor. There's a discipline with this. And I'm curious for you.

The assumption might always be that because you have an incredible personality in, you know, Rani Goinor and thinking a little bit about what your stage presence is and what your extroverted presence might be, they might assume that you're always extroverted all the time. But most of us, of course I mean, you have a you're a psychologist, by profession actually. And I'm a psychologist. Yes. But not with a medical degree.

Yes. Yeah. As a counselor. But but in in a way, most of us probably live in this kind of ambiverted, you know, existence. But do you have moments where you're sort of surprised by how introverted or extroverted you are, or or maybe those who know you very well that they become surprised by that themselves?

Yes. It's such a beautiful question. It's so wonderfully this question is so wonderfully tailored because I'll tell you, a lot of my friends are, of course, surprised that, you know, when I'm in in, eve and even still, like, they've known me for most of my life. Friends that have literally we've grown up together. Right?

Yeah. But even Behat, are surprised or rather shocked sometimes as to how what an introvert I am, you know, in in a group of people and how I will choose the people that I want to open up to and, not share my energy with everyone. Mhmm. Also, you know, I have just overall, I have a very calming and, very pleasant energy. I'm not a bitch like that.

But, I know for a fact that I will catch a corner, and just spend quality time with my people, like, the people I want to spend or even some you know, I'll I'll tell you when I moved out of my familiar house and started living to get to, alone Yeah. When I started living by myself, I have never enjoyed being alone as much as I have when I know for a fact that my parents are around, my family's around, my friends are around, my work colleagues are around, all of that. But this, you know, this time alone has made me introspect and understand so many things about myself because by default, you're speaking to yourself. You are talking to yourself. You're looking at yourself more.

You have more time to spend and and more energy to invest in and for yourself. And I think that is the best gift you can give to yourself. Yeah. To be alone and spend that wonderful time with yourself. I'm so surprised with so many facets that I've understood about myself.

I was shocked. Yeah. I was shocked. I was like, my god. I've had a terrible taste in men.

You know? I'm happy. You know, when I sit with a girl yourself in the mirror and it's like, wait a minute. Where am I going with this? What are you doing?

And then, you know, of course, to all of this clarity, because the thing is that, you know, you take yourself so much for granted. Yeah. That's true. You let other people's opinions who who don't even pay your bills or you don't or don't pay. I'll tell you something.

You know, we tailor make our personality to please the society or to please the world where in actuality, you know, because we are so scared what they would think and how they would react to it. In in actuality, they don't give a fuck. Yeah. Yeah. We don't give a fuck.

And, you know, I tell you, I'm not too don't to just not to put people down and just be like, no. The the world is a crazy place and stuff. It may be. There are also good people. But my thing is, generally, you shouldn't do something or you shouldn't not do something that's not harming somebody else or yourself only because somebody else won't like it.

You if you feel like you want to do it, just go ahead and fucking do it today. Do it today because now I'll tell you what the biggest gift is, just even being alive Yeah. In today's day and age. So just go out and do what you want to do, what makes you happy, but doesn't harm somebody else, you know, in the process physically or, you know, unconsciously harming someone else. That's just wrong.

Does that clarity and that boldness and feeling empowered to, you know, look, be yourself, as you call out how proud you can be and take the accomplishments and really enjoy and appreciate the hard work, do you ever have to be mindful of the guardrails of humility and sometimes rein it in and think a little bit about what it means, especially because you are serving as a role model and an example to to so many who are really looking to see, like, you know, how do I how do I, be myself, make sure that I'm proud and celebrate who I am, explore art, and not just for those artists out there, but in any profession, right, to to be authentic and be who you are, but then also stay humble and stay hungry and have, you know, not really boundaries, but, again, sort of like value guardrails, if you will. Right. I have always always known to be I I I'm always known to be somebody who's, as I said, vocal, but also I'm very grateful for the people that came before me Yeah. That have set this foundation on which today we can run. Because, you have to understand that till a to to a large extent, the, the revolution that was created by pop icons and, LGBT activists and, artists that were openly gay and queer in the nineties in the in the in America, for example.

They are the ones that actually changed the the narrative That was, such a derogatory dehumanizing narrative during the pandemic. The, you know, the AIDS and HIV, pandemic that had hit, the states. And Sure. We were losing so many of our extended family and chosen family. And, a hats off to all the contributions worldwide when the entire community and our allies came together, especially from the medical fraternity as well.

So you would know this because there were so many doctors, that were actually helping and not just disregarding human life just because they had certain inhibitions about a certain community. Because when you are sworn in as a doctor to save a life, you don't really see what the gender or what their orientation, what their Aadhaar card or their passport says. Yes. Or, you know, in your your your case, your security, number and what your ethnicity is or Yeah. You know, what your surname is, what sort of which God are you praying to?

It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Yeah. It shouldn't matter. We're agnostic to all of that.

It should not matter. And they taught us that resilience is in in human form. If resilience had a movement, it would be this movement. And that led so many other sub movements in around the world to come together as a community. Somewhere today, I believe that because of so many labels, so many demarcations and stuff.

Yes. I mean, I I get that people would like to be identify identify as what they want, and that's the personal choice, and we respect that. But I think that, you know, at the very base of it, we must all know that we are one community. Yeah. And all of us, when we talk about gender and orientation, have been sidelined at some level or the other, maybe not in equal amounts or the amounts may matter, you know, and the way we've been treated based on our and it it's a it's a reality, sadly.

It is that, you know, even within the community, there is caste based politics. There is gender based politics. There is some sort of a hierarchy, which I don't understand, and I don't want to understand because it's nothing to understand. I think there shouldn't be any hierarchy. And you when you plateau everybody and put everyone on the table and table conversation, things just become easier by themselves.

And the the movement that was happening in the nineties in America is some sort I see some sort of sort of a similar or an equivalent movement that we are trying to have today in in India. And today, when I'm on television, in the films, you know, there was a time I'll tell you, honestly, there was nobody else. There was nobody else doing this in the mainstream, but with dignity and, you know, articulating the thoughts in a way where tomorrow, it becomes easier for the next generation. Yeah. As you said, I'm so grateful for the people, for the opportunities, and to everyone each and you know, everyone asks me, who is your idol?

Who is your inspiration? Well, my inspiration is and are each and every person that lives authentically out of the closet and empowers me to be my truest authentic self. So definitely, you know, we must garner the courage to create a safe ecosystem where people don't feel that coming out of the closet is a big task. It should not be sensationalized so much. It should be normalized.

Yeah. I mean, hopefully, there's a day when these kinds of things, we we come to a conclusion that, like, okay. That's nice. What's next? Right?

What's nice? Yeah. What about what about you is, you know, what why are we discussing your gender or orientation? Right. Why are we making that the center of attention of your whole entire being?

Yeah. You might be a wonderful friend. You might be a wonderful husband, brother, doctor, you know, a great citizen, asset to your country by paying your taxes on time and voting. And and you may also be cishet. So what?

So what? And what's what's next? Keep it moving. Yeah. Yeah.

Because when I enter a room, I'm not going to enter a room and say, hi. I'm Rani, and I'm a transgender individual, and I love men. What the fuck? Like, what Yeah. What is that?

You know, even even with that, like, whether you enter as Arani, whether you enter as Sushant, it it almost doesn't matter in that way. And yet yet, all the things that are exhibited in your art, like you said, there is still cannibalism within the community. There is still areas where you need to actually be in the rooms where they're making decisions about things. So, you know, event eventually, how do you position yourself or for that matter support other trans artists in such a way that you can better control the levers of power and better control being autonomous and independent in this industry where, frankly, there is a hierarchy. And there is, there are lever levers of power that you may not necessarily control.

So is the ultimate secret to be in better control of those, whether they're financial or power levers so that more and more of this can be normalized and the stories can be told and the art can actually get out there and be expressed? Wow. That's a wonderful question again. When I started and when I am now in this form, let's say, when I'm so much closer to the divine feminine and, you know, the divinity, and I'm such a faith oriented person, You know, I believe in all my multiple 100 gods. I and and and their cousins and and their neighbors.

Every avatar. Right? And every avatar and its avatar and its children and their children. And I'm just like for me, I have never consciously competed with anyone. Yeah.

Other than the fact that when I was a sports person, there were people who were put beside me to compete with me. And I was still in my lane. I didn't cross my lane, and I never switched lanes with the person swimming next to me. Yeah. You know?

I had to concentrate on the fact that I don't hit my head when I'm turning or I don't get stuck in the ropes. And and that would only happen if I streamlined my vision and my body and, you know, made sure that I reached the finish line in one piece and and and did not, like, clash into somebody else. Because what would happen is that, I would ruin my chances and theirs. And in real life, we, you know, completely disregard. And that's why being a sports person is so important to me, and I'm so happy that I was a sports person.

And I was Yeah. You know, come from a sports family because sportsmanship spirit the spirit of sportsmanship is then automatically imbibed in your adult life. And, you automatically know when to stay in your lane. And, you know, if you have an opinion that, you know, doesn't is not necessarily productive to somebody else's growth, then shut the fuck up. Right?

I know when to shut the fuck up and, some people don't. Some people, you know, some people just don't know. They suffer from verbal diarrhea. They suffer from when not to know when not to know when to keep quiet. They they don't know when how to stay in their own lane.

So what happens is they live very unfulfilled lives, and I just want to tell artists in general I don't want I don't think trans artists really see. Another thing is I've never looked at myself as a trans artist. Yeah. I have looked at myself as an artist. That of trans experience, yes, but in the mainstream.

Yeah. The my journey has been nothing less of miraculous, that of resilience and conviction and courage of conviction. So my courage of conviction came from my journey. It did not come from anyone else's because I could not I of course, it it's it's served as a sort of a, you know, a reference point. But when I experience what I've experienced, I have always been the first to experience so many things, highs and lows Sure.

In in in a career like this. You know, the 1st person to perform, in drag on an on international platforms. Yeah. The 1st person in India to put drag on mainstream television in India Yeah. To represent India or in on Emmy award winning shows and representing the country and Indian drag and Indian music.

And, and even in the films in India, being the 1st drag queen on the big screen in the theaters where in in small cities, big cities, metropolitan cities, and worldwide, and having a premiere at, the Toronto Film Festival. And, you know, the film being nominated for, international level awards and then, of course, doing another series where you're not playing the typical poor, oh my my god. She's just crying, and she's got this sob story, and oh my god. Everyone hates her. And because of her no.

I trashed the bitches even even in the even in the series. I had the opportunity to trash bitches who came for me. And and, it was just like, see, you stay in your lane. If you were in your lane, you would have known that, you know, not you would have known better. Yeah.

Yeah. But now and and, you know, after a little bit of tanning, now that you know and you know, because I I I am aware of the fact that I have responsibility. But it's the responsibility that people have based out upon me. But otherwise, I am also still that, you know, middle class person from Mumbai from you know, with with the values that my parents have inculcated in me, and I'm just been doing that to my kids. So if you put me on a pedestal, then it is your job to see me as such or you, you know, imbibe whatever you want from my journey.

I'm I've never ever and I would never ever say that you must do this because I did it. Well, but for for you, somebody is helping to accelerate that journey for you. Right? Somebody who is holds, the power as a producer or as an executive someplace makes those decisions. So is it important for you at some point to be the person making all those decisions to get, you know, more autonomy and more power?

I I am, I am of course, we have to, as artists understand that we have to sometimes sign contracts. There are certain contracts that help us understand that, okay, this this needs to be done. This can't be done because this is just not possible, and it just seems fake. So so, you know, according to that, we make decisions. But, largely, I haven't given the power to anyone in my life to make decisions on my behalf.

Yeah. Nobody. And and I think you have to take accountability for yourself only because you are a grown adult. Yeah. The the problem with a lot of artists, worldwide, not just they love to be babied around.

They love to be, they love to, you know, be pampered and be given, you know, gifts and and this and taken on vacations and been like, oh, no. You deserve so much more. And, you know, you're so beautiful today. But just because you deserve that, have you ever thought that the people working for you also deserve that? Right.

You know? Or working with you and around you also deserve a compliment every now and then or deserve a break or deserve a raise or deserve a vacation themselves, deserve some skincare, and, you know, all of that. So everybody deserves it. You're not some fucking special, bitch. You know?

And and I think You need to be a benevolent diva. Right? Yes, honey. If you succeed, if you are more well taken care of, you do the same to the people that are around you. And that's what makes you a queen.

You know? Otherwise, you're just well, you know, I love what, Gaga said, right, in one of the don't be a drag. Just be a queen. Yeah. Otherwise, you're just dragging it.

You know? Yes. A good mantra for sure. You're listening to trust me. I know what I'm doing.

After a quick break, let's come back to our conversation with artist Sushant Divgikar, also known as Rani KoHEnur. Stay tuned. Every story told is a lesson learned, and every lesson learned is a story waiting to be told. I'm Abhay Dandekar, and I share conversations with global Indians and South Asians so everyone can say, trust me, I know what I'm doing. New episodes weekly wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Hi. I'm Vivek Murthy. I'm the 21st surgeon general of the United States, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Hello, everyone. My name is Tan France.

Hi. I'm Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal. Hi. My name is Richa Moorjani. Hi.

I'm Lilly Singh, and you're listening to Trust Me, I Know What I'm Doing. Hi there. I'm Abhay Dandekar, and you're listening to Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing. Let's rejoin our conversation now with artist Sushant Devgeekar, also known as Rani KoHEnur.

You know, given all of these things. Right? I mean, they're they're powerful lessons that that you've, learned and and in this journey and and one that continues to evolve. Right? I mean, like, there are many corners to still try and walk around.

But so far at least, what are some of the things that you particularly have had to unlearn about yourself in order to imagine success? I have had to unlearn giving a fuck about people's opinion. Just basic as that. Right? Just so basic as that.

Yeah. I have, spent sleepless nights about, oh my god. He said this about me on social media, and she said this about me. And then I just sat with myself, and I was like, well, look at me doing iconic shit every other day. And, you know, making sure that my kids are okay.

My future generations of artists are, you know, have something to look forward to and, you know, have not just me, but, so many more artists, like me that, believe in integrity more than just, you know, a paycheck. Yes. A paycheck is important, but at what cost? You know? Right.

So, all of these things, I realized, I sat with myself, and I had to unlearn, you know, what people thought of me. Because Yeah. Honestly, you and this is what Bette Davis had said that, you know, all of us, however celebrated, once we're gone, we have just got 2 seconds on the big screen as a But You know, as a tribute. And just 2 seconds for all the years that you've given to this industry or the world or all the films. Yes.

You live by through your legacy and your music and art or your films. But 2 seconds, and then the show goes on. I know. So why to give so much importance, and why give the power in anybody's hands to dictate your narrative? And even if they have certain narratives about you, that's not your reality, and you know that.

Yeah. You know it. So why give a shit? Right. Right.

So basic and and so, important. And Yeah. Don't give a shit. That's it. Right.

Just have to keep reminding yourself of that. Let let's do a few rapid fire ones. And some of these are I mean, I was thinking about these because I thought about which rapid fire questions I wanted to ask you. But at the same time, some of these are a little deep. So we'll see how rapid they are.

But, you know, you talk about your parents so lovingly and, you know, with so much gratitude. Do you crave parenting? I mean, you have those who you parent now, but do is that something you crave every day? Yes. Good.

Simple. That's simple. Yeah. I love my kid. Is it a way of of, you think, paying back?

Yes. I have so much love, that I have collected over the years Yeah. That, I mean, you know, excess of anything also spoils you. So I give the love. I I pass on the love, you know, I spoil my children.

I scold them also. I let them be sometimes, you know, sometimes they need their own time. Sometimes Yeah. I don't speak to I have a I have many kids. That's another thing.

So that I have so many kids because I have so much love to give. And and and I think that, yes, it's a way of, giving back what I have received. Yeah. Let me ask you this. Who is the last artist that made you cry?

Actually, the, I would say, I I in the morning, her listened to Lady Gaga's, song, remember us this way. Mhmm. Yeah. That song from a star is born. What a beautiful artist she is.

What a beautiful person she is. And, I think not that I've not heard this song before, but today in the morning, I needed to hear this maybe. You know? Yeah. And and, she made me cry in the morning, early in the morning.

Thank god I didn't have makeup on. Otherwise, she would have fucked up. And, but, yeah, she's she's a phenomenal artist. I've loved always loved her. And, yeah, she was the last artist that made me cry.

Here's one. Do you dream as, Rani or Sushant as neither or as both? I think, you know, I think so earlier, Rani was extremely different from Sushant. Right? Yeah.

Because Sushant was shy. Sushant was scared. And so Rani helped Sushant to be fierce. As much as Sushant helped Rani to, be out there and represent everybody like Sushant. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's why I say without a Sushant, there wouldn't be no Rani. And without a Rani, there wouldn't be no no Sushant like this. Sushant is a Rani. You know, the earlier Sushant wasn't a Rani.

And so he needed a Rani and this Rani that now is you know, the the the lines are so blurred, that I dream as this one Glamazon. And whether you call me Rani, Sushant, or any other thing or any other name or any other pronoun, I don't give a fuck. Yeah. It's all I don't give a shit. Yeah.

Well, I mean, it's like people who, you know, their mother tongue is monarchy or konkani, and, when they dream, they hear that. Right? And and yet they they might speak English all day long or or they might speak Japanese all day long. I speak in all the languages. And sometimes there's, like, it's gibberish.

It's just like it's it's rubbish. Like, I don't even know. I might have probably made up, like, a language in my dream. I think these they are all manifestations. I mean, like, you know, they're they're all your subconscious.

Right? It's all of your subconscious. So I just think that there are still certain things that I have probably pushed back, and they're kind of showing up in my dreams. And sure. Like, they're in a mastery.

More manifestations of who you are and and who you aspire to be and and who else you might be suppressing and all those things. That that's what makes us human. Let let me let me finish with this one. You know, you you're from sharing, you know, music or or garba during Navratri and, you know, playing to boutique crowds or or crowds of 50,000 people plus, whether it's Ganesha and Vrutalbhajan or Lady Gaga. Right?

I mean, there's such a huge variety to all of this. Yet for those people who are maybe just learning about you for the very first time, maybe they're just first discovering you. How do you want them to feel? How do you hope they feel after they've seen one of your shows or after they've seen a clip of you on the Internet or or or seen some of your work? What how do you hope they feel?

What questions do you hope they ask? What do you want them to walk away after experiencing your work? I just think that, as an artist and as a person, I want anybody who consumes my art in in any form, whether it's acting or it's performance art or live performance or, you know, recorded a song or whatever. I just want them to take away this one thing or maybe the only thing is that you need and you shouldn't want to love. You should you need to love yourself.

You need to be comfortable with yourself and all of you, not just certain aspects of you. All of you, all your victories, all your goods good things, all your good characteristics that you consider good, you know, or bad, your demons Yeah. Your, idiosyncrasies, your, mannerisms, your everything. The way you flip your head, the way you sing a certain song a certain way, the way you look at somebody, the way you look at yourself, the way you enjoy the breeze, the way you don't, the way you enjoy eating what you eat and the way you don't. And and and all of it, all of you, you need to understand that and when I'm on stage, especially, I am that.

I'm in love with myself. Yeah. I love I love the fact that I can do this. And the fact that through my art, I can reach millions and billions of people around the world. And for me, that I think if anybody watches me live or watches what I do, the one thing that they should take away is that, oh my god.

She's so fucking in love with herself. Right. Like, that's a fucking mood. Yeah. She's a mood.

Yeah. And I I mean I mean, I wish and I'm I'm so happy that I can see this. And there are so many people who are like, oh and and I see them in the audience, and I see them that they're in love with themselves. And I take that energy and that's when I perform even more like if I have a broken back. I have I have currently 2 herniated sligdis.

And I still go on stage and I'm just like, because I can't take a I can't take a break. Like, you know, you tell me what what I need to do. Tell me all the physiotherapy. I'll do it. I'll, you know, strengthen my back and stuff.

But I don't care. Like, you know, a lot of people are like, oh, no. You know, there's that. I was like, yes. But what about, you know, living in the present?

You can't tell me I have to take a 2 month break, to, you know, recuperate. I will give you I will probably give my body 10 days to heal and make sure that I completely heal. Like, not just, like, you know, flu you know, just just shit around and be like, no. No. I'll do if it's bed rest, it's bed rest.

You have to listen to because otherwise, then the 2 months become 2 years and then, you know, and they just, you know, you have to, of course, take care of your body. But I'm just also like, but I love doing this. And if I don't do this, a major part of me feels dead. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, I have to be in touch with my art. If I give that up or if something happens to that, in whatever today, I'm doing it on a larger scale, and I'm doing it bigger than I've ever done it before. Yeah. You know, on a on a bigger scale. But there will be a time and, you know, time and place in my life where I will have to take it easy.

I will have to go easier. You know, age won't allow me to do as many tours. My body might become more sluggish. My body will get older, and I'm aware of all of this. So, you know, when people tell me what about your old age?

Who the fuck has promised you tomorrow, man? But I'm living in the moment. It for a minute. Yeah. Yes.

I'm but I'm living in the here and now. Yeah. And it it doesn't mean I'm completely hedonistic, but, it also does mean that I am aware of what will or what might happen. So if I'm just sitting around and waiting to get old It's, right. Not not necessarily the right game to play.

Right? Yeah. It's not my school of thought, at least. Yeah. And and so when people see me, they should just maybe basically know that, you know, I'm very comfortable with myself.

And maybe, perhaps, that might help people to be comfortable with themselves, perhaps not. Perhaps some people might think I'm crazy, and that's fine. You know? Yeah. That's fine.

If that makes if I'm dinner table conversation for you, that's great. At least, you know, you're still consuming my content and monetizing it. So please do it. If there if it's dinner table conversation or it's in an audience and no matter what, people feeling more comfortable with themselves and and realizing how great it is to appreciate how comfortable you feel with yourself putting lots and lots of art, on dinner table, conversations everywhere. But more importantly, I think, really feeling lots of great energy and and sharing that with so many.

Sushant, thank you so much for sharing just a lovely conversation, and I hope we can visit with you again down the line. Yes. Thank you so much for having this conversation with me. It's been a pleasure. Thanks so much, Sushant.

A quick shout out, if you're ever in the Phoenix area and want to link up with the best dance troupe of performers and instructors, check out Kaveri, Ketki, Shruti, and Anusha from KDC Performing Arts. Again, thanks for listening, and please share with your family and friends. Till next time.